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Player Communication

This page is for news, announcements, game discussions, and issues that might have previously gone into emails. Anyone can start a topic or add to one already started. Please type four dashes after your name and before starting your message so it is easy for everyone to see each person’s contributions.

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5-22 Mario

Hey all,

I added a lot of content from The Complete Book of...' books of AD&D 2e, for races Elf, Halfling, and Dwarf. I will add Gnome by our game night Friday. It's nothing more than reference material. I must admit that after playing Basic D&D for my entire career, I didn't know anything about a Halfling except he was small, and could get bonuses when he hid in grass. Not much to work with there, I suppose. This just makes it a bit easier to find information when dealing with other races.

And lastly: You are vindicated, Anton!


5/17 Carissa

Late to the game, but better than never. Glad you've kept it running so long! Congrats!

Does this mean we each get, oh, how about 8760 exp each? Minimum? ;)

Congrats Bob! The scary part for me is that I'm apparently now on my 5th year of playing Ilero. O_o I don't think I've ever had a single character in any form for that long before.


In the chaos of the night I forgot to mention to everyone.

We are now in our 24th year.

I think we still have more stories to tell.

Thank you to everyone,


5-14 Quick note that Kurris is still looking out for us. Less than 12 hour turn around to solve the server issue error message I was getting.

Nothing to update on the Player's side.


5-13 BOB

I think where you are going with that is more towards what I am thinking about intent on usage.

I think it is an evil act to use poison to harm another intelligent being. I dislike limiting it to humanoids because there are lots of other creatures out there like a Treant that can be affected by poison.

Also as all of the "good" people in the world think poison is evil being known for using it will make your lives very hard.

In your particular case the idea of creating antidotes for poisons that you as an elf have seen or know your enemies use will keep you busy for a long time.

5/13 Carissa

These sound like reasonable parameters for a starting point, but I have two questions/clarifications:

  • If you collect the saliva, but don't distill it into something stronger, is it not a poison, yes? Making sure we're on the same page. I'm stuck on Mario's suggestion of maybe having it for last minute save-your-life moments.
  • Are we limiting these parameters to humanoids in terms of evil alignment? Will there still be a distinction as listed on the poison page?

5-12 BOB

I am working until 6 today then driving home. I should have the game up on time at 7 but in case just give it a moment or three. Lisa already texted that she will be few minutes late also because she is at a conference.

5-11 BOB

Thank you everyone for the very good comments and ideas. I will be using some of them. :)

I think that one of the key things where I disagree with Mario and Carissa a bit on is that yes intent matters but the act itself is still evil. Very much the traditional story of if you use your enemy's tactics are you any better than they are in the end?

That said I am persuaded that intent matters also on the creation and nature of poison. I think that Carissa's points on natural effects also is a good starting point.

So I am feeling out the idea that:

  • If you create something to use on a target that causes harmful effects it is poison.
  • If you use a naturally occurring substance to do damage to a target that is poison.
  • If you use a naturally occurring substance to affect a target but does not cause damage that is not poison.


  • Using a root to make bugbears go to sleep? not a poison.
  • Using a root and distilling it down to make is super powerful to put someone in a coma? That is a poison.
  • Dipping your arrow tip in giant centipede saliva on the battlefield to paralyze your target? Not a poison.
  • Collecting giant centipede saliva and creating a paralyzation substance to use on a target? That is a poison.

How does everyone feel about those rough parameters?


5/10 Mario

One last thought before i head off to bed. After reading all the excellent posts with differing points of view, I think i can now verbalize when I (me) feel poison is used for evil, or simply efficiency. I think if a character uses poison and it affects only those consciously targeted, that would not be considered evil. However, if the use is to affect a random, indiscriminate, undeserving person/monster, then I would label that character as evil.

Consider these scenarios:

A character sets a poison trap to protect his valuables locked in a chest - Not Evil
A character tosses a poison gas cloud canister into a crowd in the market square - Evil (unless the crowd is made up entirely of orcs or poison zombies, or others that should all be eradicated)
A character shoots a poison arrow at a giant centipede determined to prevent his passage - Not Evil
A character sets up a trip wire in the woods to maliciously poison the next poor soul who walks by - Evil

My logic follows this premise: Change the poison delivery method to Fireball, and consider if the Fireballer is deemed evil in the same situation. Then, change it to a simple melee weapon and do the same.

5/10 Carissa

And I thought it was the "cause wounds" spell delayed. I can't tell looking through the chat (on my phone which doesn't help). Er, what spells don't have visible effects that should worry us?

Back to Poison mainly with TMO's points in mind, would that means certain classes of poison are evil versus others as maybe not so much? Roughly half the classes of poison listed take many minutes to hours. Or would it be if you put a ton of effort it is it's likely to be with evil intentions like a refined suicide pill versus, say, spiking a salad with datura leaves (Jamestown, 1676). Unrefined, most plant toxicity can be reversed, but when you start refining? It it's another story.

I feel it keeps coming back to intent, though. Mario had a good point, too. If it was to poison something to save the life of another, is that evil? And with Lisa's point, if it's a coated arrow, well, good luck figuring out if it's poisoned before it hits you.

And of course, still, what is a poison? Paralysis and sleep are listed in that page, but they are different rolls and the individual usually recovers if left alone. Huh, and now I wonder if I answered my own question. Poison being something that kills if left alone? Maybe that's a differentiating point for alignment?

5/10 Mario

I took the No Visible Effects to mean the delayed fireball (square), which hit us a round after it was cast. I may be totally off, though...

5-10 Lisa

Mario's post made me think for a while. Poison gets a save in most cases and so do most spells, like fireball, chaos, or even charm spells. A lot of times the end result is the same - death. I get what you are saying entirely and you have a really good point that is hard to disagree with. In many ways I can't.

The thing that sticks with me though is along the line of what TMO brought up originally - the perception of poison. Poison is viewed, by me anyway, as kind of a dirty trick at the least. When Neith got hit by a zombie that should have done minimal damage and now she is suddenly dead with only 1 round of priestly action opportunity to save her - there's that 'Hey! You cheated!' kind of feeling. Except in very few cases, a mage or a priest casting is apparent. You might not know what's coming - but you usually know something is. Unless a poison weapon is in close proximity of the target, the person won't know an arrow tip has been poisoned when shot from 50 feet away until they hit the ground.

One of the many things I love about BOB's game is the issues and choices he puts in front of us. How we act not only affects our character's development, but how NPCs in the game interact with us. Whether BOB would change our alignment, I don't think I could have my characters ever use it. I didn't really get the elves thing until I saw both Mario's & Carissa's posts together. I've never played a character that wanted to eradicate an entire group, so I've never tried to get my head in that place. But I see where that would be challenging to think about where to draw lines.

Unrelated BTW - I am mildly freaking out over the "no visible changes" spell that was cast in our direction Friday. can't be good.

5/10 TMO

I had another thought as to why poison might be evil - the difference between game and reality. In the game, you get touched by poison, fail your save, and die, all right there. In reality, you get cut by a poison blade, you fail your save, and you suffer in sick agony for days or weeks before finally succumbing to the effects of organ failure and systemic collapse. There are lethal poisons out there that work quickly (, but many of them are much slower. Lead is a neurotoxin, for instance, although it takes years to take effect.

5/10 Mario

I briefly skimmed these passages at lunch time, and wrote a diatribe on my thoughts. But it seems now that I re-read the entries prior to posting, I don't have anything new to add, just my opinion of poison.

I may think differently than most when it comes to the use of poison. Poison is a tool, just like a sword or wand. Its effects may be super powerful in comparison, but it is the same. It helps the character achieve his goal. In the world our characters live in, it's kill-or-be-killed. They strive to find or create weapons that do the maximum damage, choosing magical ones, or larger ones, or two-handed ones. Why? Because they are deadlier. Poison is no different. What's the difference between stabbing a bugbear with a clean dagger, and stabbing him with a poisoned dagger? The goal is the same: we want him dead. That doesn't make the character evil. It makes the character more efficient.

So then, the real issue is not if poison is evil. It is if our characters are evil for using it. I say no, they are not. If Shurkural tipped her arrow with a tranquilizer to fell a deer so we can have dinner, would she be considered evil? I would not think so. If Branwyn was down to her last hit point, and a bugbear loomed over her to deliver the final blow, would Shi be considered evil if she launched a poisoned arrow to immediately kill the bugbear? No one would think so. By extension, if Branwyn was full hp, and Shi did the same, would she be considered evil? I would not think so. Poison was a tool to achieve the goal quickly. If a character chooses to use poison, that does not make the character evil.

I would not consider the act of Kel poisoning the well of an Orc lair as evil, as his standing goal is to eradicate them from this world. It would bother me, however, if innocents also died. Projecting this onto Kel, he would then decide that poisoning would not be the method he would choose. Not because using poison is evil but because innocents could suffer from its use.

None of this is to say we should paint all our blades with poison. If the need arises, with no collateral damage, I think it's a viable option, to discuss anyway.

5/10 Carissa

It wasn't until I was writing the last (or last last?) response that I even started to consider the sleep-wine as maybe poison (and then seeing it mentioned on the poison page). To me, my initial thought was doctoring the meal of anyone would be poison, but I do think intention really needs to be considered, too. I guess that gets into the technicalities of what the definition of "poison" is: the intent of the using the substance or just the use of a state-altering substance in general? And then back to the "good" poison versus "bad" poison.

As TMO pointed out, what would be the difference between poison on your blade versus a fireball to the face? I would say the ability to at least have a better ability to maybe defend against a fireball (okay so maybe you're limited to trying to run from the fireball, if you can, but it's something). Then again, based on the earlier quote, you can spot a poisoned blade so...that's the same amount of warning, isn't it? But that thought doesn't excuse poisoning a meal. It's easy to see how using poison could lead to a slippery slope.

And good point, Lisa. In that regard (of poisoning an orc), it would be an evil act (barring it being because the orcs are acting evil). Even if elves are taught at a young age to hate orcs, it would hard to believe some of the "good" ones might not at least hesitate to act against an orc. Then again, they might be quick to find reason to "justify" their actions if it came to it. I would think that's true of any race tensions for any race. (Question to BOB: is alignment change across the board an action causes it? or is there consideration for the particulars of race prejudice)?

As fun as the current adventure has been, you've got me more interested in what'll happen when they return home. That'll all be new to me. Training? Potion making? Fun :)

5/9 TMO

Poison is a tricky topic in any game. Why is it evil to poison a guard's drink vs sniping that guard in the head from cover with a heavy crossbow? What is the ethical difference between putting poison on your blade to fight a giant vs merely blasting that giant in the face with a fireball?

I think it comes down to two things: perception of assassins as being evil, and poison is an assassin's weapon, so therefore poison is evil; and prevention of a slippery slope. Adventurer heroes are supposed to overcome obstacles through might, cleverness, and right. Once the door is open to using poison to take out a bandit tribe of goblins in the forest, it starts becoming more economical and easier to apply to other situations. Thieves Guild causing problems in Greyhawk? Slipping some poison into their supplies and the problem is taken care of. Yeah, some innocent folks may get caught as well, but how is that different from a fireball?

In our case, I don't think we've crossed the line with our attempt to drug the bugbear guard, yet. Our goal is not to wipe these bugbears out, even though we might be able to morally justify it as in killing off a tribe of slavers and raiders. We're here to retrieve our gear that they stole from us. We are, in fact, going out of our way *not* to massacre the entire tribe. It would have been a far simpler plan to just kick open the front door and being the murder hunt. The sleeping draught in the drinks is actually intended to save lives. Now, if we were to go in after they were asleep and cut all their throats, that would probably be a different story.

The fact that bugbears have a different moral code than ours and might not see poisoning as all that bad doesn't really excuse us from making sure we're behaving properly though. We have to follow our own moral code, regardless of if others around us share it or not.

I'm not sure if I actually stated anything useful, or just wrote a couple paragraphs of a Psych 101 essay.

5-9 Lisa

This is a very interesting conversation to me. Not sure how much my opinion matters since BOB would be the one switching our alignments if we cross a certain line, but I always carry a couple cents around, so why not?

I wasn't really thinking a sleeping draught was a poison, per se. It's not like we cast a sleeping curse on them. With that many bugbears in the keep, the only real way to get past them if we didn't do this, was to do something like fireball them. And I think we all worked hard to maintain our focus on getting our stolen weapons back rather than conduct an all out massacre. We're trying anyway. So, I guess intent does play a big part.

So, I would think to Carissa's question re: orcs, what is the intent? Would elves be poisoning orcs simply because they hate them? Or because orcs are evil and committing evil acts and the elves have no way to fight them by other means? If in general, poisoning is an evil act, then it is, no matter what the feeling would be about the victim. I think about it if it were me (hypothetically of course!) - if I "hated" a person, I don't still get to be a good person if I go poison his dinner. If I would hold that standard for myself in real life, I would take it to game. BUT, I guess I am still having an issue of a little Valerian root being considered a "poison."

But also back to antidotes, when we get back home, some characters are going to have to do some training. This means down time for non-trainees. Between Branwyn's lab in the basement, Shi's herbalism and venom skills and Branwyn's herbalism and alchemy skills, we should be able to combine forces and make some nice potions in the couple months when we are back.

Yes, training. :) I know Hugh needs long sword training so he doesn't keep getting -2 on his hits and Marisu needs spell level training. There will probably be more needed when everyone gets their XP from this story arc too.

5/8 Carissa

I think I've added more than my two cents so I'll (mostly) wait for others to comment, but I will point out here that the posts did originally start as planning for Friday so feel free to jump back over there, too, and add two more cents to a different discussion so we have a plan set ;)

And one more cent relevant to the poison discussion:

  • While I generally agree to the humans/demi-humans/humanoids being poisoned as an evil act (although I think some can be more grey area), what about when it comes to race prejudice? For example, poisoning an orc would probably be considered evil by most races, but would it to elves? They absolutely hate orcs. Would that mean there is more leeway to who might try to poison an orc no matter their alignment? Or is it just limited to mean thoughts about poisoning an orc if good even if their hatred is that intense?
  • (And are undead classified as monsters? They often look human, although I can't remember if poison works on them.)

5-8 BOB

So overall yes to so many of the ideas below. How I view this as a starting point. I want to hear from as many people as possible to have a good source of understanding on the how, why and what to do about this topic of poison.

1 - I view using poison against humans/demi-humans/humanoids as an evil act. How evil depends on what you are doing.

  • putting a princess to sleep with a sleeping poison instead of WHACKING her over the head to knock her out?
    • evil-ish but more based on why you are doing it than the method of knocking her out
  • coating a spear and stabbing the city guard?
    • very evil
  • coating an arrow tip and shooting it at a bugbear guard?
    • evil if you are supposed to be good
    • perhaps normal practice if you are already evil
  • putting a poison in the city council members drink to make them sick and miss a key meeting?
    • evil, worse than lots of other methods of delaying them

2 - There are lots of reasons to study poisons

  • counter acting them from encounters with venomous/poisonous monsters
  • counter intelligence move to know what your enemy might use
  • poisons can be created that are less toxic than the 'insta-death' types found on so many monsters

I will give everyone a chance to talk and explore before adding more of my two cents.

Poison as a topic being discussed previous contributions copied below to keep the Poison questions separate from the story arc solving issues.

5/8 Carissa

I think I just fell down the rabbit hole of poison in game (but to be fair, it's interesting to me maybe because it's complex? Or it's the subject itself because plants/nature/science). Please don't hate me for it, Bob. I feel I'm just creating a headache right for you. It's a deal with if/when later on in the game :)

Although you can comment on:

The use of poison is restricted to neutral or evil characters. No one who holds himself as good may use poison, no matter how chaotic he may be. This restriction applies only to the use of poison on human or humanoid types; characters are not restricted in the use of poison upon non-human monster types but must still be careful of how it is used.

As well as:

The process of treating metal with poison gives a dark discoloration to the blade. Any character seeing and recognizing this change in appearance, whatever his alignment, will join the fight against the user(s) of poison. Because of the limitations above. those monsters affected only by silver or magic weapons will be bothered only by contact or gas poison, unless they can be convinced to drink the ingested type.

So it would be a tricky alignment balance, and not something I'd want to mess with in that regard. But perhaps more in the poison for hunting aspect? Like using yucca for fishing (for real-life example) or poisoning that giant boar (for in-game example). I suppose it means for actual, relevant to where we are in-game, it might be useless. I'm not exactly sure the fine-line between "good" poison (like sleep-inducing wine), neutral (paralytics?), and bad (I assume anything insta-death).

As for neutralizing poison, I don't believe any of us are high enough level for it right now. I think we ran into this exact problem with Ilero. Even if we can't do mass produce, having a few brewed is better than none, right?

5-7 Lisa

I will let BOB address most of the poison questions since he is the authority. I will say that some priests should have a cure poison spell that may work without having to use that last potion..... Making poison? I would ask BOB about how that can affect alignment. Poison is usually an animal/monster natural effect (like the frogs) or an evil act.

5/7 Carissa

With just the poisoning events we've dealt with since I've joined, I can completely see why it's hard to deal with in-game. I think that's why I'm still trying to understand all the intricacies of it so forgive any naive comments or questions (like when to do saving throws; your reason makes sense). Of course, seeing all the types of poisonings that can happen, why do we keep running into insta-death poisons? Is our luck truly that bad?

Although the more I think on it and try to read on it, this could be an interesting character development moment. Especially after her close call to being poisoned, and seeing what happened to both Ilero and Neith, perhaps Shi will become more interested in brewing some poison up for later fights...

After figuring out an antidote for Neith, though. So we have one potion left. How long will it take to get back/get more? (Maybe the bugbears keep some in the keep somewhere just in case?). Can something be brewed (and if so, how long would it take? One poison takes 1-6 days to brew). Neith has six days until it's a worry. We either use the potion right away or see if there is something that can be done in that time frame.

5/6 BOB Poison is a hard thing to deal with in game. Currently by tradition we have made the save versus poison at the time it happens. I have always wanted to go to the method of saving throw when the poison goes into effect. That way potential wounds like the wyvern attack on Ilero play out and then when the effect happens the save is made. For attacks like the wyvern or these special zombies yes that happens on the same round but lots of other things (as you can see on that page for poisons) can take rounds or even hours to go into effect.

We can discuss how to handle those later on, no need to change things now.

5/6 Carissa

On a different note, the whole poisoning thing still bothers me with the limitations of curing it.

Question for Lisa (I think it would be you?): how many antidotes do we have?

Question for Bob (or anyone with enough D&D knowledge): if I am reading it correctly, another option we could have used to save Neith (okay, maybe not feasible considering all that was happening) was for a character to use healing proficiency, yes?

A character with healing proficiency can also attempt to aid a poisoned individual, provided the poison entered through a wound. If the poisoned character can be tended to immediately (the round after the character is poisoned) and the care continues for the next five rounds, the victim gains a +2 bonus to his saving throw (delay his saving throw until the last round of tending). No proficiency check is required, but the poisoned character must be tended to immediately (normally by sacrificing any other action by the proficient character) and cannot do anything himself. If the care and rest are interrupted, the poisoned character must immediately roll a normal saving throw for the poison.

I'm also trying to figure out if Shi has absolutely an advantage or ability to be more useful when someone is poisoned. With her herbalism, healing, and (possibly most important) venom handling skill (yes that includes poison; and somehow animal handling comes into play for making poison?), is there some way to use them all? Brew antidotes or find that special venom/poison purging plant that can be pocketed and easily accessible?

Hey guys. Exhausted from work today. Taking a short nap should be on by 9 Bobs Time. If you are close to dying bob has my number. (Don't feel good posting it here haha) I have a really annyoying ringtone set to wake me up if things are going to hell in a handbasket. Don't feel bad if you need to wake me up.

Good planning the last couple of sessions. Everyone should be ready to see what happens when your plan encounters the real world. :)

We are playing on Friday (Apr 28) and Saturday (Apr 29) and then again on Friday (May 5) for what I think will be the three sessions to handle going to the keep, get inside, get your gear and get out. All three should be normal sessions of 7 pm to Midnight.

If you want to double check things now would be a good time. Grins

Have fun storming the castle


Game is up, thank you to everyone



I'm definitely not the one to ask, as I still say ILL-er-oh, and not ill-AIR-oh

Updated text from Bob: "Can you post that we will start at 9 please?"

Glad to know it wasn't (completely) my computer being wacky...

- Carissa

Edit: According to Youtube, I've been saying it correctly! That's a first.

IM from Bob: "Not likely to leave work on time could you post we will start a half hour late please" - TMO

YouTube video - This is how I learned to pronounce it at the f2f gaming table. - Spring

Does your pronunciation rhyme with 'horizon'? - TMO

Bob does it "ORE-ih-sun" and I say "ore-EYE-son" Who knows how it is correctly pronounced? Lisa

I'll be on tonight if the game is up. And I pronounce it "ORE-ih-sun", but have no idea if that's correct. It could be "our-EYE-sone" for all I know. - TMO

So it looks like I might be a little bit late tomorrow for our game. I work till six, will get home at 6:50 or so but will bring the game up as soon as I get in.

Michael the comment was that Carissa found a note on the Orison (by the way how does everyone pronounce that?) that I think you and Spring were not taking full advantage of.

See everyone tomorrow!


20, April 2017

i'd love to do that bob. I think it's fine for my schedule. Also, i'll be on tomorrow on time I think. Volunteers at the library get out early tomorrow so should be good. Also I saw that you think Spring and I are doing spells wrong. Do you want to go over what formula I should be using to calculate my spells online or in chat? Thanks! Michael.


Sorry for the late breaking news but I had to cancel the Apr 29th as a full day bonus game.

I can still run it as a normal game night from 7 to midnight if everyone wants to do that instead.

Input please?

Thanks, sorry


3-31 TMO I'll likely be an hour or two late tonight. Sorry, got some tasks that need taking care of.

3-17 TMO

April 28th is my anniversary, but there's been no mention of any plans that would take the whole weekend. *But*... we also don't tend to plan out that far ahead.

3-16 Mario

As of right now the Big Boss says the calendar is clear for April 29, so I am in. I cannot speak for July yet; let's get through this month first!

Excellent so April 29 has two takers who wants to make it three or four?

3-12 Lisa

I have a thing in the morning so would be late to an April 29 marathon but could be in later or for a night game.

July 8 seems ok but it is far away.

3-12 Carissa

No to July 8th as I'll have family in town. Yes to April 29th as I can be there and will be if it's a go.

Unrelated to that, but thoughts for upcoming game: is splitting up to scout very bad? Still thinking that if it remains forest, elves should take advantage of that territory. Ilero is sneaky enough for a second group, maybe. Not sure if he would be willing to go with a small group. I'm still getting a feel for how he reacts to things now :)


I updated the Weekly Chat History page to include all known possible sessions we will miss. We do have our BOB's Birthday Game scheduled on Saturday September 16th already also.

But I am always up for a Bonus Game when we can pull it off. I found two potential dates if others can play those days.

Saturday April 29th and/or July 8th look like promising dates on my calendar.

For those who have not participated in these before we play from Noon to Midnight these special sessions.

Or alternatively we could just have a bonus session of our normal time from 7 till Midnight on one of those Saturdays.

Do we have enough people interested who would be here?



One of the things that I actually find the hardest, although it's not normally something I think about, is scale on the maps. Is there any way to overlay a grid of some sort? I quite often find myself moving my characters closer to their target in an encounter, only to find that they're already only 2 feet away. A 5' or 10' grid would help give us some perspective.


3-1 again

Second line of thoughts on camps. Yes to knowing spells like TMO pointed out. Yes to having plans for what to do when you camp in particular spots. But you do need to have people do certain things. You cannot just say "campsite set up number 2" and expect that everything is set up properly as expected. Players will still need to express what their characters are actually doing, place them where you want them to sleep etc.

The tripwires and bells, etc all work well as warnings but remember the fight with the baby dragon. You set up a great barrier that the dragon just hopped over and then the rest of the party was trapped on the wrong side of the barrier to help. Always be adapting and considering what is best for which characters are there and how you want to defend your selves.

In particular here: setting up a trip wire warning that sets off loud bells when someone walks through. Potentially waking up all the spell casters and also attracting more attention from outside of the camp to where you are. But it might be a good thing to do so that you know if they do trip the person came from the north and not the west for example.



First off Mario and everyone: You are doing a great job of roleplay. That is why our game has developed this way. Teb has a personality, Mario does a very nice job of getting that out. Everyone feeds off of each other which is great and Players know there is no fighting even if the Characters disagree with each other. Like Branadarus and Kel.

The point of my original thoughts was that it seemed that people were taking things maybe too casually all of a sudden. After Ilero was spectacularly successful with the medusa there have been a handful of times that from my side I thought "this will be an easy encounter to give everyone a chance for a fight" and they have gone off the expected rails. Kel and Ilero both almost dying. I personally think it is a bad idea for anyone to get caught up with a flying creature unless you know how to fly. Branwyn almost learned that the hard way.

For the zombie encounter.

I had it set up as a bugbear priestess with a small horde of zombies obeying her. She scouts the camp, sees the opening to the 'north' and has her horde enter that way. The intention is to draw the fighters that way so she can eliminate the spell casters. Indigo being surprised was a bonus for her. Zombies are expendable and can be created on as needed basis. She was not worried about losing them. After the other fighters went to help Indigo she was happy to walk into camp and do as much damage as she could. Notice that after she was killed the zombies fell silent and did not attack anymore.

To Mario's points on abilities being taken into account both yes and no. Yes abilities that are 'automatic' like not being surprised, ultravision, finding secret doors by wandering by all do happen without needing to roll or say something. Others work only in certain circumstances. Mike found out that trying to use all his special elven abilities caused him to need to stay far away from the party and he was not able to help the others from being ambushed etc. That being said always do stop and ask "hey I thought I should have seen that priestess walking out of the woods" and we can work out what really happens and make changes as needed right then and there. When people use the AFK button on the toolbar it does change their player icon to away so we all know someone is not able to pay attention. Sometimes I think people might be AFK but we do not know so we do not fill them in when they return.

(by the way you can do macros in KloOge so you can set something up for a keyboard shortcut if you want for just about anything I do believe)

For the particulars on Kel and the Priestess. I agree with your wording here that he should have had a chance at noticing she was there. Not because of Ultravision because you have a camp fire or no one else could see. But yes to the same sort of automatic detecting a hidden door that 'someone is in the camp who should not be here' feeling. That is something that I went right on by without catching.

Lisa pointed out and I cleaned up the campaign tree to make it much easier for people to spot new additions I hope. I do try to counter the meta gaming a bit by always having the numbering be a bit different sometimes on the NPCs or putting up winged lizard instead of wyvern.

I also thought of the idea of making some of the effect more obvious and automatic. Things like Teb glowing when he is activated for example will remind everyone he is there and talkative. The glow ring around characters with light sources and the camp fire also would help I think.

We have a very good game and I do think we have a lot of fun most of the time.

See everyone on Friday


2-27 Lisa

Mario, that is a really good point I hadn't thought of. How much of our innate skills should automatically kick in, and how much should we have to remember to roll for/ask about? I will be also interested in Bob's response. Because Indigo doesn't have Observation or Alertness, I never think about Indigo having any special skills other than he can see in the dark. And in this particular case he failed his surprise roll, so I just chalked up his being deluged with zombies as just what happens to Indigo. But as far as Kel is concerned, that is a different story. Kel has way better skills in that area.

Also, running through a camp checklist is a great idea!

2-27 Mario

I've read and re-read these posts and let it all sink in before posting, trying not to read more into any post that what's posted. I can only comment on the Zombie/Priestess clash, since I was not present for the Wyvern battle.

Before playing in Bob's game, where role playing is the focus, I've only participated in hack-and-slash dungeon crawls. I must say I find the role-playing so much more satisfying, and I truly look forward to 7 pm on Fridays. I know I have quite a ways to go to create consistent and believable characters for Kel and Teb, but I do have incredible role models. However, this past session caused me much confusion.

I think we all agree that the priestess was not seen until she attacked. Kel ran right past her to assist with the horde attacking Indigo. However, what seems to bother me is, if we are truly role-playing our characters, and not us live people doing the playing, then how could a horde of zombies 'sneak up' on a forest-based character with Ultravision? Likewise, Kel ran past a creature, an enemy, standing tall, alone, among the entire party lying prone. Also being a forest-based character with Ultravision, would he not have seen her? I would argue he would have clearly.

Do our characters have to specifically state what they are watching for, or in what 'sector'? If so, that should be made clear. Since we are relying on our live person senses, is it possible make the enemies on the map more visible? I know Lisa suggested looking at the character tree on the left to see all the enemies, and I will definitely do that going forward.

Our party has so many diverse NWP's that we sometimes take advantage of, and other times we don't. I don't know if that's because we are eager to move forward, or we simply forget. Maybe we institute a 'nightly camp setup checklist', where we consistently do these kinds of things, like sleeping locations, trip wires, zones of watch coverages, disposal of corpses, etc. If we do it consistently, I think we will have less likelihood of forgetting a life-saving step. Trip wires and bells would be very useful IMO, and I cannot imagine it would take very long or much skill to utilize.

I do want to mention that I have no intention of telling anyone how to play their characters. Lisa plays Branwyn as the fearless fighter mage, heck she has a church named after her for that reason, and Carissa is rounding out Shi nicely as an adventuring priestess. TMO has great quirks in his characters. Not saying that people need to change how their characters are, just making sure that everyone understands what is available to them. This adventure through the forest is a good chance to practice team work etc. Once you get back to the city it will be a lot of dinner parties and political things again. Trying to make sure we have a good balance of action versus roleplay, etc.

Knowing your spells is always a good thing, knowing your combat options in melee is a good thing. Paying attention to where you are on the map is definitely a good thing.


2-20 Carissa

Not much to add, but I didn't know about parry (although not a good idea with a bow, apparently), I didn't see the priestess until it was too late, and I'll look and see if there are any spells I have that are worthwhile. If tripwire went bad before, it probably would again...

2-22 TMO -

2-20 Lisa – Sorry for the length of post

Parrying wasn’t a thought in my head either. My first hits were connecting and so I thought if we could just kill the thing quickly we wouldn’t have to worry. Of course about that time, Indigo started to miss a bit. My strategy for encounter placement was I had Indigo wake Hugh and then stayed to fight from the bottom of the rock ledge in the thought that Indigo would be close to the sleepers in case the wyvern moved down off the rock.

For the zombie/priestess encounter, I thought we were nicely spread out and protecting the sleepers on three sides. There wasn’t much more we could do from a setup standpoint – I thought. But as soon as Indigo was attacked he was stuck behind a wall of zombies and he couldn’t really do much except keep whacking at them – which in a way kept them from attacking anyone else. I zoomed in the map to target better and didn’t see the priestess until she struck. To be fair, Bob, Indigo did call out after he was swarmed to alert the others on watch. I think that was construed as a call for help. I did appreciate the assistance in fighting them, but with three people on watch, we could/should have had one watchman either wake someone to watch the camp and/or watched to see how the combat was going while watching the camp.

But hindsight is always 20/20. It is much easier to look at it afterwards and say what would have worked better than it is when the red dot goes off and it’s your character’s turn to act. Sometimes that is not so easy, and every one of us has blown decisions on more than one occasion. Usually we work our way through it. It is sad that lately we’ve had so many character deaths and near deaths.

I totally agree with TMO about waking up the non-casters more often. Also, what I try to do is try to place my characters purposefully when they are sleeping. I put Branwyn on the inside of the group or near the NPCs to make it more difficult for her to be woken and I actively put Indigo on the outside of the sleepers so he is easier to awaken. If we have the non-casters on the outside, someone on watch can wake at least one PC on the way to combat and still have an action for themselves.

We have the removing the corpses thing down now. So that should be better.

I think one of the biggest things all of us can do is just pay more attention to what’s happening across the board. We need to look and see who is on the map during encounters and ask, if necessary, if we can see these creatures/people. Bob removed all the excess NPC characters from the left sidebar so it will be easier to see everything attacking as part of the encounter if icons are hard to see on the map. Every time we have combat, everyone/thing Bob puts on the map goes up on the left sidebar.

During the fight, it helps to watch not only your PCs hit points but other PCs/NPCs. If someone is in big trouble, change targets, pull them out or tell them to get out. (TMO – that is why I had Branwyn blast that last bugbear you wanted to take prisoner. Branadarus was heavily wounded and I didn’t want him to take another hit. Glad bugbear survived for you. :) ) If you are fighting from a distance, look to see who in close combat might need the help from outside more. Or in a different strategy, with a group of enemies, try to wound as many as possible to more quickly bring down the hit points and morale of the pack of whatever is attacking to get them to run. (Caveat: the undead don't run away)

I do have more than a bit of hesitation on the trap idea. A priestly magic alarm system, like a wyvern watch spell, is nice, but Spring can tell in more detail her trap-on-watch story which backfired quite horrifically. It left Seremella on one side massively wounded with Jilly and Kenna on the other side of a sort of mine field and a flying dragon able to go wherever it wished. Neither character could help the other during the encounter. Any traps and/or trip wire laid in the dark has the potential to make us victims of our own cunning.

2-20 TMO

I did not know (or remember, whichever) about the Parrying option. Ilero was using his Tumbling skill (forgoing all attacks for a +4 AC). Ilero is a high enough level now that it looks like he'd actually get more bonus from Parrying (+5 vs +4). However, his tumbling did actually protect him from the tail stinger. But the bite made it through, and then the tail sting was automatic the next round. Que sera sera. Erm... come to think of it, I'm not sure Ilero *can* Parry when using the Hand as his weapon. Of course, the only reason he was close enough to be bit in the first place was because he was trying to distract the beast from the sleepers below (in typically idiotic Ilero fashion ;) ).

I don't have anything to add about the zombie attack, as Shur was asleep and I was AFK kid-wrangling, so I missed most of the details. We have had a lot of problems with night-time encounters the last few months though. I'm not sure if we've gotten lax about the setup, or if Bob has gotten a bit more strict/logical with the effects of our carelessness, or what. Either way though, we should take more precautions.

Here are a couple of ideas:

  • tripwires with small bells a distance around the perimeter of the camp, to provide more warning. Also, we could also designate certain people who are not on watch as second line - they're supposed to try and listen for the bells and try and wake up.
  • don't be afraid to wake up non-spellcasters for an encounter. The people on watch have been getting in trouble trying to handle the encounters by themselves - when Bob is probably scaling the encounters by the power of the whole group.
  • camouflage the camps - Ilero has the camouflage skill. Others may as well. I tried to have him use it back at the beginning, but haven't in a long time. It could maybe provide some protection from some encounters.
  • shelter the spellcasters - build a lean-to, or sturdy tent, or something to provide them some extra protection.
  • find some campsite spells - illusory terrain, Wall of X, stone shape, guards and wards, alarm, etc. Especially priest versions, so that they can just designate any leftover spell slots at the end of the day into those, unlike mages who have to specifically memorize them.
  • traps or snares around the camp - similar to the tripwire with bells above, could give warning or inconvenience incoming predators.


Lisa told me that the campaign tree was a mess. I had not realized how much had leaked onto the player's portion. That is all cleaned up now so it should be easier for everyone to see when a new friendly or non-friendly NPC appears on there. Plus it will be easier for you to find your own characters as well.

You can sort those lists, I move things up and down easily by holding down the ALT key and then arrow up or down to arrange the icons in the order I like.



I wanted to get some thoughts from people on the last couple of sessions. The combats were dangerous but more deadly than I expected.

For the Wyvern attack. I called it a flying lizard and characters went with that rather than calling it a wyvern which was good. It was only the second time in the last 7 years of game play you have encountered one if I remember properly. However during the attack the thing that did not happen that I expected to was to Parry the tail attack. See the parrying page for details but I thought once people understood how dangerous the one type of attack was they would try to stop it. It also might be that no one knew about this way of dealing with attacks so I wanted to bring it up here.

For the zombie attack there are a couple of issues. Everyone rushing to the one side of camp and leaving the rest of the area open was not a great idea. I did not think I could get away with the priestess just walking into camp and killing the people who look like mages and priests. Also Indigo never did ask for help. I am not saying that he should have I am saying that if he does not ask for help then it gives everyone else a chance to look around and prevent others from walking into camp.

Also the sleeping/waking up which characters should likely be talked about again.

from 8-19-16 The way to look at things.

  • You are asleep: You wake up when you are woken up by someone intentionally, groggy but eventually awake.
  • Asleep and someone is fighting a cat (see below): You are an adventurer you are used to a little noise, you grumble and turn over
  • Asleep and someone kicks you because of a fight with a cat: You roll your Con or lower to wake up with a bonus of 4 {ie if your Con is 12 roll a 16 or less}
  • Asleep and someone screams in pain because of a fight with a cat: You roll your Con or lower to wake up, no bonus
  • Asleep and someone screams and kicks you because 5 wolves are there: You roll your Con or lower with a bonus of 8

One key judgement call I used that encounter especially with surprise:

  • Asleep: Goblin bashes you on the head, roll Con to wake up with a bonus of 4
  • Asleep: Goblin can just slit your throat and you do not wake up

Yes it is dangerous out there in the wilderness, that is why it is called an adventure. BOB

Finally here are the notes from the Player Communication thread of last year on how to do the Orange Markups for Book Marked.

from 8-30-16

I'm sorry but I don't really have one place that has all that info. But most of the conversations about it have had Jennevive there. The name of the book was the Fiendomicon of Iggwilv. Branwyn opened it in the second half of the August 28, 2015 chat log. The best advice I can give for searches is to maybe use these search terms:

Branwyn AND demon AND Jennevive


Branwyn AND "red scrolls"

You would only need to look at hits for chat logs from Sept 2015 forward. Then when you open the chat log you can do a find on this page for demon and that should jump you into the conversation.

So those are my thoughts on what happened the last two sessions. With no game next week I thought it might be a good time to talk about these ideas here and to have everyone perhaps to roleplay do the orange mark ups so you have all the data you need going forward.



2/13 TMO

I'd love to hear anything you find on envenomation that you think might be relevant. My email is master.tmo at gmail. We can discuss anything you find and see if it can fit into or affect the situation one way or another.


update: I've determined the personality changes - there's nothing major in there, but there are some minor tweaks.

2/13 Carissa

Well shoot. So I did read that right the first time and he was stung in the neck. I have no clue why I got confused and turned it around as I was writing to bite = neck and stinger = unknown. So, yeah, ignore my confused suggestions.

Or at least the parts that don't make sense now. Bite to the torso is probably more likely to be survived, anyways. Replace neck stiffness with back pain! Especially, as you pointed out, you'll have some natural healing and/or scarring. I'm still stuck on the poison, though. For better or worse, you've got me on a topic of interest which is envenomation. I guess because of the years of taking care of venomous snakes and spiders? :)

I just feel a poison that was instantly fatal is significant. Even if the elixir saved him, to what degree did it help or heal him? Could it really heal damage from the poison and work so simply? As you pointed out, it's a roleplay-heavy campaign so these little details can now matter. Time to pour over some medical literature for the fun of it. ;)

2/13 TMO

I am going over ideas of my own as well, but thought I'd open it up to see if anyone else had something I hadn't thought of yet, or a reason to go one way or another with it. So far I haven't settled on anything definite, so I'm still open to input. And the personality effects will probably take multiple sessions to fully settle in anyways, as the immediate trauma/impact/adrenaline wears off.

For scars I generally don't bother checking unless the wound was extra serious (iirc, Shur took a 40+ hp wound on her leg - magical healing or no, I wrote that down as a scar). The actual damage from the wyvern's stinger wasn't that serious, but the poison injected was instantly fatal. Even though it was erased by the Elixir, I'm leaning toward it being too major an event to just vanish. And, actually, he hasn't really had any major healing since the injury. The Elixir removed the poison, an Orison took him up to 1hp, and he has to wait 24 hrs before he can have any other healing magic. So there's some time in there for natural bodily healing to start. From writing this, I'm getting a vague picture of how it might go down, but again, I'm still open to input.

The way I'm picturing it, the bite was not to the neck - the wyvern was trying to carry him off to make a meal of him, so it was probably around the torso. The actual stinger wound (from a 30+' flying lizard, btw), has to have missed the spine and major arteries. Maybe a long grazing slice rather than a direct puncture? Or perhaps the puncture went into the base of the neck at the upper shoulder muscles? I'm a little hesitant to give him penalties to his Tumbling, since that's one of the few things he does well. ;) But some RP'd stiffness or pain wouldn't be a bad idea.

I'm in unfamiliar territory here myself. ;) This is one of the more roleplay-heavy campaigns I've been in, as well as a near-unique situation to try and resolve.

Appreciate your time and thoughts!

2/12 Carissa

Like Lisa said, for the first part, I'm not sure what to advise. But, as I would see it, such an experience would likely have one of two effects: more caution or more recklessness. Either you are cautious as you're reminded the fragility of life OR you survived death once so you can again. There might be more interest in the religious aspect, too, some introspection, but how much did religion matter to him before and will it more now?

Lisa brings up a good point for the healing as well, except poison, as I understand it, is different. (Maybe?)

"Damage that has already been inflicted is not restored, but as long as the hold poison is in effect, the victim can be cured or healed of damage caused by poison by any normal means."


"[Master] Just to be clear with everyone, no spell could have saved him, they all work within the onset time of the poison which is instant, so the only spell would have been raise dead or the potion you happened to have that cures poisoning, no specified time limit"

As Bob said, any spell would have to be used at the onset to cure poison. The only things that worked after would be Raise Dead or the healing potion we used. I'm still confused by the above quote as damage already inflicted is not restored but damaged caused by the poison can be healed by normal means? He was bitten, but where was he stabbed? Does it matter? If we're getting technical, what kind of poison? (Does that first quoted sentence contradict itself or am I reading it wrong?)

Originally I had it in my mind that he had poison near his neck which to me means damaged vocal cords (like can happen with acid reflux). That might be out the door, but still curious on if there are after-effects for poison (for wherever he was stabbed). As for the bite, any neck damage would be mechanical, then, if it wasn't healed (I imagine healing vocal cords could be tricky). If so, whistling makes sense as does the inability, or at least limiting ability, to yell. If there is scarring, it'd hurt to yell, I imagine. If there was a wound to the neck, like a tracheotomy, I'd assume similar side effects (learning how to talk again or a different way to vocalize, problems eating, coughing, ect.). What about neck pain? Will it affect his tumbling ability? Can you imagine doing some of those acrobatics with a stiff neck? :)

2/12 Lisa

I'm not sure what to say about the first thing. It's so personal about how you want your character to develop. No one knows Ilero more than you do. Does Ilero become more cautious about jumping on top of beasts? :) Does he become more religious? I dunno. These are things I can't really advise about. I'm sorry.

About the healing though, maybe Bob can speak more definitively about this. How I see it is, if you are magically healed, then would you have any scars or physical after effects? Indigo, for example, might have some scars or visible effect of having his arm broken since he had to heal from that naturally. Same with Branwyn when she went on her healing strike after that dragon way back. But I always pictured magic healing as "Presto! You are back to normal."

2/11 TMO

I'll open this up to input from the players. Without any of the discussion Bob and I have had about it, and given the apparent seriousness of Ilero's death and return in the Suomi religion, what are some the ramifications that you can think of? This is going to affect Ilero's personality some how, that's certain. 2nd, Ilero took a wyvern's stinger through his neck: even after healing, should there be some sort of effect on his voice? If so, what do you think it should be? He's already got that thick accent of his, so I'm not sure we want to make it even harder to understand. A couple of options I've thought of, but don't limit yourself to these, are adding a throaty rasp, adding a light whistle to some of his words (from a hole still being in his voicebox), making him unable to speak loudly, or above a whisper, etc. (I should note that the injury itself was not fatal, even if it was to the neck. It was the poison that killed him.)

2/4 John

It's all good. It is intended to allow for variations of existing characters, allowing for some surprises. It's all story and no action so anything entertaining. Maybe I have the wrong Branwyn, maybe you haven't met me yet. But yes it is Miranda. Think Improve. no goal but to have fun and entertain whomever. But it should be you controlling your character, introducing other characters like like I did, or similar to encourage or have openings for others to join in. And others can start side stories or interject like "great to see you but you think you got problems."

2/3 Lisa

Hi John! Hope all is well. Nice to read you again. I was a little unsure what you had in mind for the story. So if it is Branwyn but not in Bob's world, she's not an Ambassador, court mage or anyone of any importance whatsoever? (That might actually be a nice change of pace! :) ) With the Teenage Drama title, then we are going back in time and she would not even be a high level mage? And in the roleplay, is the girl who approaches Branwyn Miranda or a different character? I guess I am just confused. I am hesitant to write in openings for other "characters" until I would know whether they wanted to do some creative writing.

Think you might want to post here a bit more to let us know what you were envisioning? Or ... maybe log in?

2/2 ::taps mike:: welcome to DND Anonymous, my name is John, it's been six month since my last DnD game. just kidding

I had a while idea for some 'fan fiction' that I thought would work better as a group project. Anyone, including Bob can join in. It is intended to involve characters from Bob's game but it is not in his world. Have fun if you want. It's called Teenage Drama


Yes to Carissa, feel free to create summaries if you wish.

There is another thing you, Michael, or anyone can work on also to help the group overall out.

The Book Marked story arc is the next one that the group will return to when everyone is back in the city.

I started to comb through the mentions of the demon mark, etc and highlight them in Orange to make the clues easier to find in the various chat logs. That plus collecting said information into the Out of Character page for the adventure will help everyone understand what you know, what you suspect so you have a place to start in your planning.

My 'Grand Crazy Scheme' is that we continue with the War by Art story arc until you make it through the bugbear king encounter. Then head back home to Dryads Lair and wrapping up a couple of threads like the prince's parentage, etc. I am hopeful that most of those can be accomplished by early September (potentially 28 game sessions or so) so that the group feels comfortable with the idea of everyone heading out to the adventure to solve Book Marked. I am hopeful that will be taking place before, during and after the Birthday Game. I expect it will take several sessions at a minimum to solve. Then after that people return home to Drillian and or where ever the group decides to venture.

We should be in a good spot at that time for a variety of small adventures again targeted towards specific people. Perhaps Branwyn will be sending out people in search of ingredients for magic items.


1/28 Carissa

Things are finally slowing down for me. Do you want me to do summaries until you have time again, Michael? You can jump in and add whatever you think I missed if you want so you're still contributing. Just let me know :)

1-27 BOB

I updated the page for Tebhoundrin with links to backstory, dates, places, etc. All should be good.

As we continue to weave the pages into the character stories I do want to have as much of the notes here on this site so they are searchable but they do look nice in the timelines that get automatically laid out over there.

1/26 Mario

I have managed to piece together a back story for Tebhoundrin. Poor guy, he's had a difficult life so far. I will bring him into game this week. Please forgive any glaring inconsistencies in my role playing, as his back story and personality are new to me as well. (Again, I will state that I reserve to right to backtrack, change, cover-up, renege, drop, and completely disavow any and all errors and inconsistencies. :0) )

Teb's story is posted, but I am missing some information (to be updated very soon) and a listing of personality traits, (it's late tonight to add these). Please read with a non-critical eye...

Also, I would be remiss if I didn't give a HUGE shout out to TMO for taking the time to generate personality data, and even spending over an hour on Skype helping me round off Teb. THANK YOU TMO!!

1/25 Carissa

Thank you! That was the clarification I needed. Original post was as a joke/sarcasm, but it's all good information to know, especially with the clarity. I do like the socialist commune to the group, and it's good to know for the future that stranger spell casters are often (always?) offered money. It makes sense. Also good to know at least how some priests are handled. I didn't plan for Shi to be extremely devoted (or much at all) which makes me wonder what would happen if she didn't tithe...

And yes, being smarter and using less healing would definitely be nice ;)

1/25 Lisa

My thoughts on the posts. I think (hope) Bob was talking getting spells cast from strangers - that costs, which is why Branwyn offered to pay the Greek priestess. If any of our casters do spells for strangers, they can decide if we do it as a kind gesture or for cash or favors.

Our group itself has, I have always thought, been a kind of socialist commune. We collect loot in a big pile and carry it around. If something works for someone especially - magic long sword, priest scroll, mage wand, it heads in that character's direction naturally. If it is more generic, then who needs/wants it can get it. Ilero, e.g., as a thief *cough* rogue got the flying hand as it was appropriate as a sneaky kind of thing and keeps him a little more out of the heavy fray of battles. We found it, he wanted it, it's his character's item now. Easy. Training, armor, pocket change, special clothes, etc. come out of the collective funds when it is time for those things.

Mages and priests are high maintenance and generally expensive to keep around. For mages, learning new spells, building libraries and labs for research cost money. Branwyn's costs have gone down over the years as she has a nice library and lab already and only needs to learn new spells when she has time. My experience with priests in our group has been a bit odd. I have only had one PC priest that played that priest as so devout that the tithing issue has even come up. What we did for him was, like Bob said, take 10% and 'send' it to the church. The group has always paid for priest training beyond any tithing because those characters are part of the group and that is what we do.

If every priest in our group now wants 10%, fair warning, Branwyn IC will probably gripe loudly, as we now have 4 priests so their churches will be getting almost half our take. FYI, Branwyn in general has a bit of a problem with priests - she just doesn't understand the whole god/religion thing when to her magic is magic, and feuding religious sects is just silly nonsense. Each of our characters has different views on Bob's world of religion if anyone wants to explore that sometime, or just notices that different PCs in the group will react differently when religious issues come up.

The whole payment thing within our group is not something I would like to see. No one pays Ilero to have traps explode in his face so they don't explode in ours, or pays fighters to jump right in front of beasts to take the hits until we can kill what we need to kill. I feel healing is just part of the skills we need to have to get around, like all the other things we do. Now, can we do things a little smarter to avoid needing so much healing? That's another conversation. :)

1/24 Carissa

Ah, fair enough. But, if you do have a good book on spells, that could be helpful so please and thank you! Maybe it'll help me know them better (touch versus distance versus whatever other problems have already come up).

Well that was quite a big favor to be brought back from the dead. That all makes sense, though. Much nicer than past RPGs I played where healing was simply expected (or demanded) got nothing back in return, favor or reanimation. Perhaps I played with the wrong people. ;)

That all makes sense, too. Pure curiosity: would being an elven thief provide the best chances or do they not combine that way?

And for Mario, if Teb is ready for Friday, it'll be easy enough to bring up. I'm sure it isn't the first time he's been in such a situation. Not to add possible loopholes you're trying to avoid for your story, but a Teb conflict might be why Kel wasn't able to retrieve Ellidor's bow earlier (since they were on that mission together as I gather from your story)?


Yes to rtf/pdf versions of the books if you need them. Most of the rules are here on the site, but spells, yes that might be helpful to see in book form outside of the game. :)

To the tithing question. Priests have churches and organizations to maintain. With the ability to use spells to actively help or hurt your congregation various sects will have different levels of expected tithing in exchange for giving/with holding these spells. In general for our purposes I have said that priests should be sending back "an amount" to their church from their adventures (10% works as a round number). However most times it is a question of taking the money found and using it for training your self so you are more capable and can do more for the church.

That said the idea of doing favors for each other is a long standing tradition too. The current adventure is exactly that for the Kayugan church. So on the personal basis healing someone and expecting a favor back is normal behavior. The reason Branwyn built a church for the Kayugan religion and spent a couple hundred thousand gold (in total but building things involves a lot more than just a particular amount of gold) to build it in exchange for them bringing her back from the dead.

For an easy gold equivalent for favors I lean towards 100gp per spell level each time a spell is cast for someone.

On the question of room searches yes. Anyone with Observation has a chance at detecting something is off/weird/etc. about an area. Anyone can find a secret door (if there is one ;) ) on a 1 on a d12 if actively searching. Thieves and Elves get better chances just walking by and even better when actively searching. Hidden doors are even easier to spot, etc.

The idea of 'door' is meant to include any hiding space, such as the removable tile that Ilero found in the middle of the floor hiding the want. Or a rug that is pulled over a trap door. Yes you could find those by doing a tile by tile search or pulling back every rug you ever find. But using proficiencies and skills makes it the work of minutes rather than several hours.


1/21 Carissa

A) Hi Greg and Autumn!
B) Bob gives out free books, and I didn't get one??
C) Also, I can ask for tithes? Because I think Kel owes Shi tons by now ;)

Also for future room searches, apparently for elves:

- Secret doors: simply passing one finds it on 1 on 1d6; searching finds it on 1 or 2 on 1d6
- Concealed doors: find on 1, 2, 3 on 1d6

I guess it's only for doors, but useful if Ilero fails and Branwyn doesn't have her spell to check for them that day. And that's all I have for now.

1/20/2017 Michael

Hey all. Horrible way to start out the year, but it looks like I wont be in this Friday. I tried to find time to just do a simple summary as well, but it eluded me. Between classes, work, and... work, it's just not feasable tonight. I might pop on to say hi and see about some emergecny healing or something, but there's no way I can spend my evening playing with so much work going on. I love you all!

1/18 Mario

The hotel I was to open isn't ready, so their live date pushed. I hope to 'see' you all Friday!

1/17 Carissa

Oh, good ideas! I don't think we know anything about the statue, do we? I tried an observation check and failed. We never did much else with that statue, did we, besides tying it up? That'll be fun to explain to her :) Do we even know if it's a statue versus a Medusa-statue? We never ran into anything with wings...and I'm curious why she thinks that specific keep/temple might have the spear. Maybe the smashed statue is a clue. Fingers crossed for the language spell! At least we probably don't have a spell if it all was Kayugan contents. I have a feeling that if she is a zealot, she might try to take the spell from us (or be incredibly torn between her duty to Athena and her loyalty to the prince).

And yeah, I wish I was going to be there, too, especially the more we talk about this! Unfortunately, getting on late is iffy enough. I can't see any way I can swing getting on early when the conversation with the priestess is to happen :/

1/16 Lisa

Ohh, that's a really good point! I was thinking a literal spear. Wish you were going to be in on Friday. :( There were only 2 magic scrolls out of that batch of 15 and one was the Shield and the other was destroyed, so I think we're safe on that as far as truthfully saying we don't have an actual spear or a spell. The chest contents was very Kayugan and this priest is very Greek so I don't think even the destroyed spell would have been Greek. I was also thinking maybe they could take a look at that statue rubble near the gargoyle. Since they are Athena experts maybe they can tell if the pieces look like her. Give them something to do after we leave. Also, maybe they have a language spell and could question the goblins if they want to keep investigating.

1/14 Carissa

Ah, I did not know that! I figured all priests had at least some healing, but I guess we do need to find that out now. And yes, I hope Neith is willing to help. Perhaps she needs a cup of coffee first to wake up :)

It's good to be open to strangers. If not, the group wouldn't let Shi and Kel tag along (and some of the others?). And since most survived second watch unharmed, it is still possible to beat the priestess and her group if needed ;) While I'm driving Shi towards simply being naive and therefore suspicious of anything outside the Wildlands, the more I think on it, the more I think my suspicion is this being my first encounter with non-party NPCs. In other RPGs (mainly video games), it is rare to encounter a friendly NPC in the wild. More than that, after the centipede encounter I guess I feel we wouldn't be so lucky to have something benign follow. I think, in the end, it is not the NPCs I'm suspicious of, but Bob. :P

Not sure if it crossed the mind of anyone else, but I also realized after reading that that the Spear of Ares the priestess is seeking might not be an actual spear. The Shield of Cahus isn't a physical shield. We didn't check all the scrolls, right? Could one of those be what she seeks? One was a spell of conjuration. Would it have to be a priest spell or could it be any? Not that I'd want to give it to her. Like with the Shield of Cahus, I'm for sharing the knowledge. It'd be a shame to destroy it.

1/14 Lisa

Really glad you did not erase! I didn't think about them possibly having a roadmap (so to speak) to the Underworld or knowledge of such. It will be an interesting conversation over breakfast next week, that's for sure.

Not all priests are healers and we do not know yet if either of them can heal - unless I missed something in the conversation. Jennevive, who we were talking about last night, for example, is a priest with no healing powers at all. Neith did not try to help in the morning either even though Branwyn and Shi'nynze were fawning over their highly damaged friends. I would like her to help a little if she is willing.

One of my goals when we pick up the conversation next week is for Branwyn to find out if they can heal and see if they will help, either as a favor to their Prince, or in exchange for some gold or gems. I always keep some gold and gems out in case we need it. I didn't stuff everything in the room scroll - just the things we cannot replace.

Suspicious and/or wary is good. Not everyone is as they seem. I did notice she mentioned a scourge and infidels to both Shur and Hugh and she is definitely is quite the religious zealot. But Branwyn and the others haven't heard that part of the conversation, so it is hard to act on that in character until she starts mentioning it again to people.

My personal philosophy is to make my characters open to strangers that do not seem threatening, but that is how Bran and Indigo operate and does not have to be the same for everyone. I always figure if they turn out to be bad, we can always beat them up later. :) And it doesn't mean they plan to discuss Kayugan military scrolls or priceless artifacts. In my experience, some of the NPCs we have made friends with have given us pretty nice benefits and it would have been a shame to drive them away without giving them a chance.

1/14 Carissa

Okay this is has been completely bugging me since last night after I did a Mario of typing-but-erasing-comment (except in-game), and now knowing I won't be on next week (visiting family, but I will bring my laptop and if I can get their Wifi...maybe I can jump on late). And it may be because I'm still learning the story, but it bothers me that a priestess, who should be about healing and all that, completely ignored one near-dead and one-almost dead individual. Because she was starstruck OR after something.

Yes, I am still suspicious of her, and yes, I feel better now. See? Typed it and didn't erase it!

One other thought: Greek priestess might know how to get to the Underworld or at least to the River of Styx. Might be worth trying to see what knowledge she has of the chalice without letting her know we have it.

1/13 - BOB

Carissa asked if trips to the underworld are possible...... grins the answer to almost everything is yes, then the question becomes How? for the Why?

Book Marked (see Diplomatic Entanglements for additional details) is a story arc that is still being worked through. Branwyn will eventually have to steal/aquire a cursed book from the Royal Library and return it to the devils in Hell to let a demon from the Abyss leave and go home.

At least that is the current thought.

Again, the How? has not yet been figured out.

1/13 Mario

All my previous experiences with RPGs were never as organized as Bob's. They were simple hack-and-slash dungeon crawls for loot, with zero role play, or thoughts about why we were on this quest. We never received treasure with a reason (for use in further gaming situations). I didn't think about the chalice as being 'found' for future use, only that is was a cool item to have.

But I suppose we all know Bob better than that. I'm sure we can parlay this into something either valuable for us to use, or to someone else we will encounter. I'm totally open to any ideas you 'deep thinkers' have for it. Having played much much longer than I have, you all have tremendously better ideas; I never would have thought to use it to make potions, for example. It would have simply sat on a shelf, or been sold for way less than it should command. So thanks to you for thinking this through!

1/13 Carissa

I guess I haven't played long enough to quite appreciate the chalice as I should. I'm still on wow without knowing how wow it is. That said, I'm good with whatever as long as we think it is in the safest place possible. I'd hate to risk losing it. Are trips to the Underworld possible? Might be a good bargaining chip if so!

1/11 Lisa

All interesting ideas. I'm still in a little shock over the whole thing. It might also be helpful when we go to Hell to return that overdue library book. Enchant Magic Item is a 6th level Mage spell and so Branwyn couldn't even learn it until she levels. Turning that item over to a high level mage to do it would be expensive and risky if we don't completely trust the mage we hand it to. I don't know what priests have to do to enchant things. It's funny - I think about so many of the quests we have been offered. In a year or so a bunch of random adventurers could be sitting in a tavern across the land when a shadowy figure approaches them with an offer. Could they retrieve a certain chalice rumored to be housed at the Ambassador's manor at Dryads Lair (or wherever we are gamewise at that time). But basically I am open to whatever everyone wants to do with it that is possible.

1/9: Re: Chalice of Charon; some of this discussion should happen IC among the knowledgeable. Neither of my characters qualifies for this title, though, so I'll put my thoughts OOC here. First off, we could probably write our own ticket with the Greek church for this, assuming Charon is associated with their pantheon in this world. Second, we could keep it as a trophy in our HQ. No one would fault us for doing this with it, I'm sure. It would make us a target for thieves once word got out, of course. Third, Bob mentioned that it could be turned into some sort of powerful magical cup. That's for the mages to research and determine. One idea that just popped into my head, and would require a high level priest's assistance, I'm sure, would be a cup that could transmute water into healing potions. Not quickly, maybe once a day, or once a week. But it would allow the group to stockpile a few of those for travels when we may not have a priest handy. As a twist to it, maybe it would only convert holy water into healing potions. Or even, dare I say, unholy water. ;) Imagine how fun it would be to try and explain why we're trying to buy a stash of unholy water.




Sorry guys. I started to put together a summary for last week, but I life just flew at me with its pants down this week. Work is starting to gear up again and school is starting back up. Hopefully next week will reduce to a simmer for a little while, but I wont have our weekly summary up tonight. Sorry guys. :( Anyhoo, guess you'll have to read the full log for any info. As we play I can bring you up to speed though. It should help.

See ya later all.

1-4-17 Lisa

So sorry, Spring. Good luck with the deadlines. We will miss you!

TMO- We don't have to appraise everything necessarily. But since we've killed everything in this lovely place and have time to relax, we do need to check some things. Branwyn can try to see what is magical and what kind of magic it is. So everyone can empty their pockets. I would hate to have this killer magic item in our hands and not know about it until we get home.

Also we have at least a dozen scroll cases. We absolutely do need to open those now and see if these are the Brandish scrolls or some random priest or mage scrolls containing spells. I would like some trap detection before we start opening cases if we can, but hopefully Mario/Kel can do that if you are away.

And when we are done, I would like to open the room scroll and start shoving loot in that rather than try to carry so much valuable stuff in plain sight people/creatures that might like to take it.

I'd forgotten this was the annual awards day. Even if I do take JTom to his class, I doubt it will run long enough that I won't be able to log in at the end, for what it's worth. Are we going to appraise on the road? I thought that was a 'back in town' type of activity.

Take care, Spring! Hope you get everything done on time!


1/4/17 Spring

I'm sorry, friends, but I'm not going to be able to make it at all in January. I have two major ugly deadlines happening and I need every minute.

I hope February is better.

Let's all hope TMO can make it for the game play and the awards, as Kel doesn't have the Appraising NWP. Not sure what else is comparable, but I'm positive Kel doesn't have it. :0)


Well that is not very good news.

We do want you in for the awards night, plus of course they want you to do your job as appraiser in chief. Now you leave the fate of your loot in Mario's hands.


I might not be on this Friday. JTom has a shooting class Friday night. My wife has said she'd take him, but she said it with all the enthusiasm of someone volunteering to take a dead rat out to the trash. Also, she's sick, so she might just wuss out anyways. ;)


I decided to add in a new page for each Story Arc page {going forward} to collect the Session Summaries written by the players.

I collected all the ones that Michael has done to this point and copied them over to there. I am also leaving them here.

I created the new separate page because this page will get archived at the end of the year and it will be harder to link to or go back over after that happens.

Thank you to Michael for getting us started on this.