Fundamental discussion
regard Priest of Fate
In the current 2.5 rules set, all character classes can be tweaked to more define a particular character. Many players do not use any or few of the advance rules as they are optional. There is normally much discussion, I believe I am the only one to post regarding the topic and I believe only for the Priest of Fate I have been trying to get approved.
It all started with Chonny who considered himself a priest which by the rules he was a fighter mage. Like a rogue who does not want to be called a thief, there is a separation between the character and the class that is used to mold him. My second character was a fighter cleric who wanted to be a paladin but just did not have the stats. He was still Lawful Good and mostly a pain in the butt, however he did not have the special powers but had many a paladin would not.
There seems to be no need to explain while a fighter might get d12 hit dice or move 15. Why a mage might go crazy from casting a spell or have innate abilities to change their shape.
Priests, it seems, needs to have this reason. Like every priest of the same god has to have the powers, while some may be more powerful than others. I do not believe this, I was the original Priest without a God.
I do not know if it's because I ask too much or ask at all.
Maybe I have played all the basics and want something special. I know that is not what this "ERA" is all about.
I would like to hear from other players, their opion on rules 2.5 and priests in particular. I think I know how BOB feels.
Well I have to add my two bits here with that comment.
Priests are different in their powers because the powers come from a particular God. All those that worship that God have the same powers (per level) as each other.
That is one reason there are so many different Gods out there. People give power to the Gods by worshiping them, Gods give their priests power in exchange for guiding that worship. Those priests need to keep a consistent narrative to that worship.
But with hundreds of Gods and Saints etc to grant powers to those that worship them there are lots of possibilities to explore.
BOB
I agree that there is a separation between the character and the class used to mold him. Your rogue/thief example is perfect. Certainly, a rogue is often a thief. However, they could as easily be an assassin who believes thievery is dishonest, and beneath them. A paladin may only be a paladin, I think - once they veer off that path a tiny bit, they cease to be a paladin - but that's the only class I can think of offhand that has no wiggle room.
Perhaps this era is not about doing special things; at least, not right off the bat. However, I think that over time we can mold our characters into what we want them to be, within reason and if we can support our reason either technically or roleplay-wise. I think that we should have to struggle, as frustrating as is it.
I can understand your personal frustration with having 'been there, done that' and wanting something different.
I'm going to read again about what you're trying to accomplish with your Priest of Fate so I can speak sensibly without sticking my foot in my mouth.
Kaz
Paladin is a very nice example. Inside of a Paladin's 'holy destiny' are several ways of accomlishing it. Each of those paths is unique and varying from that path negates the essence of being a Paladin.
I do believe that there there have been some special things that have happened already and there will be more to come.
Imari's totem to Indigo is a great example a small thing that makes the story real and is part of being special.
BOB
I kind of understand where you're trying to go with the Priest of Fate, but I also understand with what Bob is saying about the necessary consistency of Priests. By the same token, I really don't understand what you said above about being the original Priest without a God. By definition, a Priest or Cleric is one who is part of a religious order, and a religious order requires a God. Be that as it may, I still think there is a way to build your Priest of Fate so that it is eventually acceptable both to you and to Bob. Keeping in mind Bob's comments about how a Priest gets his power, though, it seems to me that you'd be praying to whichever Gods are giving an ability (I think you had three on your list; Gaea, Apollo, and Hades?). If nothing else, it sounds pretty complicated.
Kaz
Priestly spells only come from divine power.
A mage could call himself a priest and cast wizard spells.
One of the clear defining boundries is Priests can heal, Mages can not heal. (sure a couple of minor grey areas with Polymorph but not that critical)
BOB
I don't think I understand exactly what you are trying to do with this character. Could you please bottom line it for me? I'm sorry, I don't know what the time access sphere stuff means in terms of actual playing.
It looks to me like you want a priest so he can heal, but also want him to be able to fight well and do divination. But, you don't want him tied to any god. Is that correct? If that is the case, it may be asking too much. If my mage could fight a little better and heal, I could send her off on her own adventures. I thought the point of this game was that we are limited in our capabilities and only when we work together can we be able to do everything we need to do. From what you posted about worshipping Fates, the Fates themselves allowed for the credit to be given to a god for their powers. So even if your character "knew better", he would also know that he needed to be aligned with one of those 3 gods. I think the concept is wonderful and look forward to having this character join us. It will be fun. It's just that if I am understanding what you want correctly, (and I could be totally offbase), the character shouldn't really be able to do everything well.
Lisa
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5/17
Sorry Kaz and Lisa, once I saw BOB's answer the discussion became a moot point to me. Bob and I disargree on many thing and I had posted the concept previously but can try again just so you know.
Some priests are more involved in combat, a monk is a priest who is good at un armed combat. I invisioned a Priest who is the "hand of Fate" not so much casting spells to predict the future but had spell and spell like ablities that gave the character but the apperance of seeing the future especial when it comes to combat.
See combat in DND is really abstract. Hit points are not just the ablity to take physical dammage, but also the ablity to avoid or resist damage. Armor class is also not just the physical barrier between the body and attacker.
I could make a multi class fighter priest and get many of the benefits of both with appropriate restrictions, I can create another Chonny, who is not actual a priest but considers himself one. At this point, I am not sure what I want as I have to start from scratch. I will keep you informed.
John
