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War by Art - Out of Character Discussions

The prophecy as told us in chat:

[Priestess (Master)] Listen to the wind blow; watch the sun rise; running the shadows //

[Indigo (Lisa)] My name is Indigo. What is yours?

[Priestess (Master)] That is not important. What is important is that you see the Prince safely to his destiny

Indigo (Lisa) points at Ilero "Him?"

Priestess (Master)] He needs to survive to break the chain

Indigo (Lisa) points at Branadarus "Or him?"

Priestess (Master) bows, "I leave that to you"

Carissa,

What Lisa means by Clicking Off Time is that during a session we fast forward the action, clicking off a day or six in one lump to move things along faster.

It typically happens when everyone is in a safe space, doing training or perhaps traveling through a safe territory.

It does not happen in wilderness for example but can happen when everyone is safe in the city.

BOB

6/4 Carissa

I keep rereading this and it still doesn't make full sense to me. What's the purpose of clicking off time (if I understand you right)?

6/3 Lisa

I looked up our path to the cabin for backtracking purposes. We did this at BOB's Birthday Game in September 2016.

It was a 4 and 1/2 day trip from the Dryads Lair to Corvash on the Knarr upstream. We had a shipboard conversation and clicked the time off. Going downstream to come home should be a faster trip.

Half a day walk from Corvash to a small town with an Inn where we spent an evening on 11/26/1266. Branadarus estimated 4-5 days walk to reach the hunting lodge.

We leave the inn on 11/27 and reach the hunting lodge on 12/2/1266. Again, time was clicked off for that part of the journey.

So does BOB click us off again??

5/17 Carissa

As someone who has only ever had cats (although a dog might happen one day), I would actually agree. Besides, synchronized napping is an awesome skill. ;)

Yeah, that thought didn't hit me until I read TMO's page, specifically the descriptions for tricks and house skills. I can just imagine someone walking through a downtown street with a pack of wolves and trying to convince me they're tame. Not exactly sure I would believe them. This could make things interesting.

5/17 Lisa

Can't say much on the wolf thing. Being more of a cat person, I would be much more useful if you had a pack of kittens and we could train them in synchronized napping and advanced grooming. Wolves? TMO's page looks pretty comprehensive.

The only thing I thought I'd mention is that once we get into civilization, there will be more attitudes like Jilly's when you walk down the street or say, into a tavern with a bunch of wolves. I'm not trying to discourage keeping them. They are great. I am just mentioning that whenever I've seen PCs take in wild animals, there has been maneuvering that has to be done when those animals arrive in places they're not expected to be found.

5/16 Carissa

Hmm, I wonder why I thought you did. Did someone else? Or maybe just played with someone who was a druid? Oh well. It doesn't matter, but thanks for the information! Not quite sure how BOB will address some of this, but at the least, it gives me ideas. And potentially a headache since there are four of them...

5/16 TMO

No, I haven't had a druid, but I did look up articles in old Dragon magazines about dog and horse training and post them to the site. Animal-Dog.Customizing

5/15 Carissa

At the risk of another rabbit hole (and/or falling away from the story arc again), now that we're out of the keep, I've been contemplating on what to do about the wolves? I'm curious to anyone's thoughts or opinions on where to go on this. I'm thinking these questions leans more towards BOB and TMO (you had the druid in the past, right?), but as always, I like hearing what others think. For me personally, I think I need to better understand what exactly I can do with them. From what I remember about the spell description, they can each learn up to three tricks (or three per intelligence - but I might have read that description from a different edition; and unlike animal training, it doesn't sound like they can fail training and it only takes one week to learn one trick).

If taking the example from animal training description, if training them to "guard" would that add alertness? Maybe train them another week for "observation" or a week for hunting adds hunting or training them to hone tracking adds tracking? If that helps you understand how I'm imagining it. Or is it strictly a role-playing thing where the wolf would refuse to hunt until a week of encouraging it to?

Realistically, every interaction with an animal is training including discipline, praise, treats, ect., and if it's focused training, that could be done during a watch or those few minutes before leaving in the morning or eating meals or wherever (squeeze it in where you can).

Two of them are rather useless in a fight, one is best for last minute take down, and obviously the pack leader can help, but that said, the spell says they are friends so they won't do anything that a normal wolf wouldn't do (that's actually a different spell; in other words, they aren't cannon fodder). I imagine pack leaders are usually fearless, but young pups (aka the low HP) would probably be scared of a dragon or boar or whatever and might not join unless it's a dire situation.

I think I need to go read up on wolves and wolf dynamics now...

5-8 BOB

Excellent discussions all around.

For the wand, yes Shi knows the trigger word, it is in Elvish but anyone can say it. Only Mages can use a Wand of Wonder however as is with many wands.

Yes Poison gets into all sorts of complicated mess of issues :) and I do like delving into the how what and why about topics like this.

In fact I am going to push this discussion over to the Player Communication thread as we are getting farther away from this story arc and more into general topics that everyone might want to comment on or check back on in the future.

BOB

5/8 Carissa

I think I just fell down the rabbit hole of poison in game (but to be fair, it's interesting to me maybe because it's complex? Or it's the subject itself because plants/nature/science). Please don't hate me for it, Bob. I feel I'm just creating a headache right for you. It's a deal with if/when later on in the game :)

Although you can comment on:

The use of poison is restricted to neutral or evil characters. No one who holds himself as good may use poison, no matter how chaotic he may be. This restriction applies only to the use of poison on human or humanoid types; characters are not restricted in the use of poison upon non-human monster types but must still be careful of how it is used.

As well as:

The process of treating metal with poison gives a dark discoloration to the blade. Any character seeing and recognizing this change in appearance, whatever his alignment, will join the fight against the user(s) of poison. Because of the limitations above. those monsters affected only by silver or magic weapons will be bothered only by contact or gas poison, unless they can be convinced to drink the ingested type.

So it would be a tricky alignment balance, and not something I'd want to mess with in that regard. But perhaps more in the poison for hunting aspect? Like using yucca for fishing (for real-life example) or poisoning that giant boar (for in-game example). I suppose it means for actual, relevant to where we are in-game, it might be useless. I'm not exactly sure the fine-line between "good" poison (like sleep-inducing wine), neutral (paralytics?), and bad (I assume anything insta-death).

As for neutralizing poison, I don't believe any of us are high enough level for it right now. I think we ran into this exact problem with Ilero. Even if we can't do mass produce, having a few brewed is better than none, right?

Ah, and I forgot about the problems of identify! Whenever I played video game version of D&D, I could just quit and restart if it failed (maybe cheating, shh). ;)

To make it easier for you on the whole wand conundrum I'm still trying to figure out, Shi has a Wand of Wonder and I haven't a clue yet what to do with it. She can't use it (unless Bob says yes to your wand trigger question). It's a very cool wand, though. I'd like to see it get used, and as of right now, the only one I see who could use it is Branwyn. That said, if it's single use, what would Shi do with it? Provided we find Ellidor's Bow, will she try to repay the group somehow by giving away the wand? That's where I was going with the thought, but it's nice to know more of how it works before making any decision, and there isn't necessarily a rush, but it's a good spot game-wise to consider it.

5-7 Lisa

I will let BOB address most of the poison questions since he is the authority. I will say that some priests should have a cure poison spell that may work without having to use that last potion. If I'm wrong, then we just use the potion. All of our potions we carry have been found through looting on adventures over the years. Branwyn has a magic cauldron that can duplicate potions (1 time only) which is why we have 2 of so many of them.

Potions are expensive to buy. It's not really a cost effective solution. Making potions takes time, proficiencies, a place to work (I think), and most likely gold for ingredients, if they are not commonly found locally. Branwyn has a lab at home and some skills, but so rarely has the time. It may be worth investigating to see if we can brew a replacement between the equipment at home and the skills Shi has. I don't think they can be mass produced though.

Making poison? I would ask BOB about how that can affect alignment. Poison is usually an animal/monster natural effect (like the frogs) or an evil act.

BOB will have to clarify if there are priest wands. Magic wands? They are generally single purpose. A mage could learn a spell however, where they infuse a wand with a number of the spells they know. This way they could cast them without having to memorize them. That is a high level spell. The wands you may find on the road are generally a specific type of spell, e.g., fire, water, missile, etc. But you have to know how to use them, i.e., a casting word or action. Mages can cast Identify on a magic item and learn what you need to know about them in order to use them. Wands can be charged and have limited life spans, or they can be permanent single use casting tools. Question for BOB - can non-mages get a spell cast off a wand if they know the right trigger?

The thing about Identify is that it's a major pain in the ass spell - to put it bluntly. I learned it under duress and only do it when we are in between adventures. Below is from the spell book. Not complaining - just giving an example of how complicated these things are and why I sometimes balk at having Branwyn doing certain spells on the road. :)

''[-The eight hours immediately preceding the casting of the spell must be spent purifying the items and removing influences that would corrupt and blur their magical auras. If this period is interrupted, it must be begun again. When the spell is cast, each item must be handled in turn by the wizard. Any consequences of this handling fall fully upon the wizard and may end the spell, although the wizard is allowed any applicable saving throw.

The chance of learning a piece of information about an item is equal to 10% per level of the caster, to a maximum of 90%, rolled by the DM. Any roll of 96-00 indicates a false reading (91-95 reveals nothing). Only one function of a multifunction item is discovered per handling (i.e., a 5th-level wizard could attempt to determine the nature of five different items, five different functions of a single item, or any combination of the two). If any attempt at reading fails, the caster cannot learn any more about that item until he advances a level.

The item never reveals its exact attack or damage bonuses, although the fact that it has few or many bonuses can be determined. If it has charges, only a general indication of the number of charges remaining is learned: powerful (81% - 100% of the total possible charges), strong (61% - 80%), moderate (41% - 60%), weak (6% - 40%), or faint (five charges or less). The faint result takes precedence, so a fully charged ring of three wishes always appears to be only faintly charged.

After casting the spell and determining what can be learned from it, the wizard loses 8 points of Constitution. He must rest for one hour to recover each point of Constitution. If the 8-point loss drops the spellcaster below a Constitution of 1, he falls unconscious. Consciousness is not regained until full Constitution is restored, which takes 24 hours (one point per three hours for an unconscious character).

The material components of this spell are a pearl (of at least 100 gp value) and an owl feather steeped in wine; the infusion must be drunk prior to spellcasting. At the DM's option, certain properties of an artifact or relic might also be learned.-]''

5/7 Carissa

With just the poisoning events we've dealt with since I've joined, I can completely see why it's hard to deal with in-game. I think that's why I'm still trying to understand all the intricacies of it so forgive any naive comments or questions (like when to do saving throws; your reason makes sense). Of course, seeing all the types of poisonings that can happen, why do we keep running into insta-death poisons? Is our luck truly that bad?

Although the more I think on it and try to read on it, this could be an interesting character development moment. Especially after her close call to being poisoned, and seeing what happened to both Ilero and Neith, perhaps Shi will become more interested in brewing some poison up for later fights...

After figuring out an antidote for Neith, though. So we have one potion left. How long will it take to get back/get more? (Maybe the bugbears keep some in the keep somewhere just in case?). Can something be brewed (and if so, how long would it take? One poison takes 1-6 days to brew). Neith has six days until it's a worry. We either use the potion right away or see if there is something that can be done in that time frame. And on that note, how do the days count for that? Would it not be until evening of the sixth day to worry? I'm not sure how often we run into poison to know if using up the potion is a concern or not.

As for the plan, that's what I was thinking. For some reason, the word cellar escaped me yesterday so yes, I do mean cellar when I say camp :)

I think we meant for Scruffy to show us the tunnel, but we were so eager to be done with questioning him and get to the plan we kind of skipped it. I did forget the bugbears don't know where the wine is. It was goblins we fought near there, not bugbears. I hope the goblins don't have reason to tell the bugbears. And on that thought, why did Scruffy switch out four goblins? What's special about them? I'm still curious to his plan.

I bet the mirror will be hard to get down, and I worry it might yell and wake up the guards. I'm not too interested in it, either, but I think TMO might be.

And thanks :)

Edit: On yet another thought (I have too many right now), how do wands work (yes, I know, for wizards only)? Just...for future planning purposes.

5-6 Lisa

We have 1 Elixir of Health in the potion chest.

My thought is to just raid the treasure room and get ourselves back to the cellar as quickly as possible, but I will go with whatever the group decides. When you say camp, do you mean the cellar or the goblin home? I thought Scruffy said the bugbears didn't know where the wine came from so I don't think they know where the cellar is. When Branwyn went into the Keep Scruffy was out in the courtyard and not in the throne room so I hope he is still there when we leave.

As far as the mirror is concerned, I'm personally not interested in it. From the description we got from Scruffy, I think it was a large mirror and not really something I would want to carry around. But again, if someone wants it, we can see if the bugbears are sleepy enough to go get it. It's probably worth a ton in gold.

Liked the summary :)

5-6 BOB

To Carissa's point on the healing and other NWP. Yes to using those skills the same round or the round after can affect such outcomes. In this case it would have meant redoing the saving throw till later, just as the spell solution you did use will.

Poison is a hard thing to deal with in game. Currently by tradition we have made the save versus poison at the time it happens. I have always wanted to go to the method of saving throw when the poison goes into effect. That way potential wounds like the wyvern attack on Ilero play out and then when the effect happens the save is made. For attacks like the wyvern or these special zombies yes that happens on the same round but lots of other things (as you can see on that page for poisons) can take rounds or even hours to go into effect.

We can discuss how to handle those later on, no need to change things now.

Lisa and Carissa have both also correctly mentioned that these are 'poison zombies' and they do not act like all the other zombies you have encountered back in Drillian, or elsewhere.

For what the plan is or should be I leave that to the players.

5/6 Carissa

While it's still fresh on my mind, I've a few thoughts and questions for next week. The big one is: what's the plan? Provided we understood Billy correctly, there should not be anymore magic bugbears. We're not in the best of shape. Do we go find the treasures, take what we were looking for, and run? What about the mirror? Is it worth trying to get the mirror? All the guards are (maybe) asleep. It'd be a shame to not try, and yet, we have to account for actually leaving the keep, too. Safely. There will be encounters, and it'd be safest to go back to camp. That said, we need to try to find Scruffy before we leave. We never did find out where the other entrance to camp is, did we? The bugbears know of the main entrance. There is a chance any we leave alive will try to ambush us there at some point. That other entrance is pretty important. And, of course, do we call it done or draw this out into a two-day deal? I don't think any of us want to deal with the king, but how much more can we (safely) get done before night really sets in?

On a different note, the whole poisoning thing still bothers me with the limitations of curing it.

Question for Lisa (I think it would be you?): how many antidotes do we have?

Question for Bob (or anyone with enough D&D knowledge): if I am reading it correctly, another option we could have used to save Neith (okay, maybe not feasible considering all that was happening) was for a character to use healing proficiency, yes?

A character with healing proficiency can also attempt to aid a poisoned individual, provided the poison entered through a wound. If the poisoned character can be tended to immediately (the round after the character is poisoned) and the care continues for the next five rounds, the victim gains a +2 bonus to his saving throw (delay his saving throw until the last round of tending). No proficiency check is required, but the poisoned character must be tended to immediately (normally by sacrificing any other action by the proficient character) and cannot do anything himself. If the care and rest are interrupted, the poisoned character must immediately roll a normal saving throw for the poison.

I'm also trying to figure out if Shi has absolutely an advantage or ability to be more useful when someone is poisoned. With her herbalism, healing, and (possibly most important) venom handling skill (yes that includes poison; and somehow animal handling comes into play for making poison?), is there some way to use them all? Brew antidotes or find that special venom/poison purging plant that can be pocketed and easily accessible?

Anyways, just a few thoughts for now. I'm sure I have more somewhere...

Damn zombies.

5-4 BOB

So I doubled checked tonight about the situation.

Bad News - Shi is about 20 feet away from Billy. Close enough to get a great panoramic shot of her pointing and shouting but not able to cast any healing spell on him.

Neutral News - Branwyn is only 6 feet away but she cannot heal him.

Good News - Nieth is only 4 feet away and can heal him this round and if the roll goes right brings Billy back over zero and so he does not go to walking wounded.

Alternative News - Snee is not on the map because Spring was gone when you got to this point of the night (ie never logged in on Saturday) so she 'could' be less than four feet away..... but she is also one round behind.

So the best solution is for Michael to log in right away at 7, do the quick healing and then log out if he needs to. Spring could log in right away too to attempt to help out. Lacking that anyone can bind wounds on Billy and stop the bleeding but then he will be at walking wounded.

BOB

5/2 Carissa

Oh good! I thought he fell to the first floor. That means there is a real chance to save him! I wasn't sure about Billy, but he has really grown on me, too. We must try to save him!

5-1 Lisa

Good point! So I asked Bob where Billy landed - since it happened so fast, I was confused. Billy was on the stairs between the 3rd and 2nd floor and he fell to the landing of the 2nd floor with us. If Shi is close or whoever is within arm's reach (to 4 ft), then that would work great and we can avoid the walking wounded status. I guess I was extra worried about poor Billy who definitely did not deserve a sword in his back. I almost want to take him home with us.

4/30 Carissa

Yes I'll in on time Friday. I think Shi is closest to Billy and might be able to heal him within one round, maybe? Although he fell down the stairs so it could be up to Neith. I believe it's a touch spell so it'll be whoever can reach him first.

As of right now, I have nothing to add to your plan. It sounds good to me!

4-30 Lisa

Yes, I have a plan ... And they have all worked really well so far. :)

Can Michael or Spring post if they will be in on time Friday? Shi has used a some spells already, but Carissa could have Shi cast as well. We just need a priest that can cast in the next instant on Friday.

If a priest can cast cure moderate or heavy wounds on Billy in the round that he is injured, he will go to whatever that dice roll gets him rather than making him +1 walking wounded. Speed is key. If Billy only makes it to walking wounded and can't climb up the stairs himself, then one of our strong men (Hugh, Kel, Branadarus or Indigo) can help Billy up the stairs and put him in a corner out of range of fire.

We need to also simultaneously take care of the remaining guard on the Treasure Room floor as well as send some of us up to deal with the sword thrower on the upper floor. This upper floor has the battlements (so with guards) and the Magic Room used by the Magic Bugbears so we have potential for casters up there.

My thought would be to not advance further into the 2nd floor until we have taken care of the 3rd floor problem. Looking at past combat, one or two of us can take care of the last 2nd floor guard quickly. Not sure what we will find on the 3rd floor, but hope we won't get more than 5 guards up there and 2 casters. I hope at least one of the magic bugbears is currently getting drunk, but we will see.

Branwyn has plenty of spells left - just no more spells of mass destruction. She does have one sleep spell and the rest are her regular combat spells.

I think we are doing really well considering Bob has messed with the plan at every turn. We are pivoting and moving ahead rather nicely, in my opinion.

Patrol gone? Check
King and 10 bugbears dead or out in the forest? Check
12 bugbears drinking and not paying attention in throne room? Check (we just hope they will sleep soon)
We have our weapons and armor? Check
Goblin prisoners freed? Check
Guard room and barracks clear so we can go upstairs? Check
Now we just have to remove the remaining guards, take back our missing weapons, get back down stairs and out of the keep and to the cellar alive and then we'll be done. Piece of cake! :)

4-11 Mario

Hi All, I'll be a bit late signing in Friday evening; we will be in Tequesta, but getting a late start to the drive. Hope to be on about 8:30 - 9. See you all then!

4-7 Mario

Interrogation of Scruffy by Shi

Is the bugbear patrol coming here to get wine? No
Only the goblin patrol was getting wine? Yes
Were they getting it for themselves? No YEs You came through the tunnel, correct? Yes
Is the entrance to the tunnel near the trapdoor? Yes
Billy, who is the wine for? King
King Bugbear? Yes
Is the wine a tribute of some sort? Yes
Do the bugbears know where you keep the wine? No, laughs
Is the wine your only gift to the bugbears? Yes
Can you tell us how to open the tunnel from the other side, Scruffy? Yes
Will you tell us or would you want to show us? Yes Yes
Is the tunnel lit? No
Is it empty? no
Is it dangerous? No
What else is in the tunnel? Gel, worms, rats, mold
Will you demonstrate to us how to open the tunnel right now? In this room? No No
Do you need to go up to do it? No, there (points to the casks) Would you introduce us to the king, Scruffy? Maybe
Is there a celebration going on? no yes
Do you get him wine every night? no
Is it his birthday? (puzzled)
Is he celebrating a recent conquest?no
Or the addition of more treasure? yes
Does he drink wine each time he gets more treasure? yes
Do you know where his recent treasure came from? no
How do you know when to get him wine? Do they tell you? no yes
Do they only bother you for wine? They leave you alone otherwise? no no
Do you know what treasure he recently acquired? Magic
Wand? shrugs
Do bugbears keep hostages? yes
Yes a hostage? Do they have one now? yes
Is it a wizard? no
Is the new treasure a weapon? yes no
Does the new treasure incude a weapon? yes
When you bring the king wine, does he let you all leave after? yes
Does the treasure he has include a sword? yes
Pick? yes
Bow? Yes
An elven bow? Yes
Does the king ever give his treasure away? Yes ( holds up hand, nice ring)
Only to goblins? No
Do you exchange wine for treasure? No
Darn. Scruffy: Maybe
Do you have to give more than wine to get treasure? No Yes
What do you give? (Worth a try) Wine
Just wine? No
Wine and a hostage? No
Do you know what the king does with the hostages? Plays
Do the hostages...surviving playing? Sometimes
Do you know where the hostages come from? Lots, everywhere
Is it only the king who drinks the wine? No
Do you also drink the wine? Pretend
Is the wine untampered when you give it to him? No
Do you poison it? No Yes
Do you make the king sleepy with the wine? Yes, grins
If the king wasn't sleepy, would he prevent you from leaving? Maybe, Try
Is the stuff you put in the wine here? No
Is it back home? Yes
Would he accept an offering of wine from someone other than goblins? maybe
What do you put in the wine? roots
Are these roots available near here? Yes, Valerian
Are there goblins hostage, Scruffy? Yes
Are they important to you? Yes
Is the celebration today? shrugs
Does the celebration last more than a day? Sometimes


Interrogation of Billy by Shi:

Would Billy die for his king? Yes
Has Billy been able to understand our conversation? No
Would he hurt us if he could? Maybe
Would Billy hurt Jilly? No
Scruffy, ask Billy if he likes his king. No
No Billy does not like his king? ( no answer) Scruffy, please ask Billy if he could get us our weapons back from the king. Hard
Scruffy, do you mean it would be hard to get our weapons from the king? Yes
But not impossible...? (No Answer)
Scruffy. Ask Billy if the king has ever given a weapon away. Yes
Please also ask him if the guards also drink wine during the celebrations. Yes
Scruffy, did you steal that ring when you poisoned the wine? Yes
Was it difficult to do? Yes
Did you almost get caught? No. Smart
Did the bugbears stay asleep long? sometimes
How long? One hour? sometimes
Would they be asleep enough to free the hostages? no answer , mouth opens and closes, then stops
Ok....is the ring you stole special? Yes
Is it magical? Yes
What does the ring do? Strong
It makes you stronger? Yes
Have you tried to free the hostages before? Yes
Did goblins die when you tried? Sometimes
Are the hostages near the treasure hoard? No
Did you use the ring to try to free the hostages? No Yes
Have you tried to free the hostages more than once? Yes
Did you steal the ring to try to free them? No
How did you know about the ring? Voice
Did the ring speak to you...? No
Er, so what voice? Magic
A magic sword told you to steal the ring? No
Did the voice come from an object? Yes
Did the voice tell you to keep the ring? No
Did you plan to give the ring to the voice? No
Can the voice move? No
Did the voice tell you why it wants the ring? No
Will the voice be mad if it doesn't get the ring? No
Does the voice want the ring? No
Does the voice want to help you? No
Has this voice talked to you often, Scruffy? yes
same message? Yes


Interrogation of Scruffy by Hugh

Scruffy? Is it alright if I speak to you? Yes
This voice you hear. Does it sound male? No, Female
Does the voice come from the treasure room? No
Can you identify the race of the spellcaster? Who
Do you remember where exactly you were when you heard this voice? Yes
Does this voice instruct you to harm yourself or others? No
Where were you when you heard this voice? King
Were you in the King's treasure room? No
Were you in the Throne Room? Yes
Could you tell where in the throne room this voice emanated from? Mirror!
What did this Mirror Look Like? Big
If I lined up with my companions, would it be bigger then us in a row? No
How many of (me) would it take in a row? One, two three?, (no answer)
Is it bigger than a bugbear? No
Can i carry it? maybe
Is it bigger than you? Yes
Can you describe this mirror? Any words you can use? Talks
Does the Mirror have writing on it Scruffy? Yes
Scruffy can you look at something for me? Yes
pulls out a paper and jots down a few random sentances with the languages: W. Comm. C. Comm. Jotun. Do any of these lines look like what was on the mirror? No
Does this mirror have a frame Scruffy? Yes
Can you make pictures Scruffy? Yes
Carefully holds out a small piece of parchement and quill. Can you do a basic sketch? Doens't need to be perfect. Just what it generally looks like. Draws a large oval
What is it framed in scruffy? Wood? Metal? The Wall? Silver
Is writing on the silver or the mirror itself? Silver
If I were to look in this mirror would I see anything different than I would see in a normal mirror? No
If the King looks in the mirror would he see anything different than a normal mirror? No
Scruffy. When you first heard the voice. Was there something odd happening in the Throne room at the time. Something that happens differently then any other day? Yes, No Maybe
What did the voice say? Magic
Was it a magical language Scruffy? No
If I brought a magic item in front of this mirror. Would it demand I give the magic item to the mirror? No Yes
Any Magic Item? Yes
If I brought TEB in front of the mirror would it be interested in him? Yes
Did the first magic thing come into contact with the mirror be the ring? Shrugs
If I somehow got the ring and brought it too the mirror. What would happen? Or if you brought the ring? (again, asking questions that require a multiple word answer)
Interrogation of Scruffy by Kel

Scruffy, your friends are hostages in the castle? Yes.
Do you want help rescuing them? Yes.
If we helped you, could you help us, too? Yes.
Do you go down stairs to got to them? No.
Do you go up stairs to get to them? No.
Are there any stairs in the castle? Yes.
are the hostages in cages? No.
are they held by chains? No.
ropes? No.
why don't they run away? Doors.
all of them in one room? Yes.
are there guards inside the room with them? No.
are there windows into the room? No.
are there guards outside the room? Yes.
are they bugbear guards? Yes.
is there anyone else helping to guard? Yes, wolves.
monsters help to guard? No.
More than 3 wolves
do you like the wolves? yes
how many guards are there by the door to the room? maybe 5. \\ when you tried to save your friends, did the bugbears fight you off? No.
did any bugbears stop you from getting to the door? Yes.
they did not sleep? Yes.

3-31 Mario

In-Game Post of Interrogations of Scruffy (Goblin) and Billy (Bugbear)

Scruffy Interrogation:

Do you know about the tunnel? Yes.
Where do you normally stay? Here.
What's on the other end of the tunnel? Home.
When is the rest of the crew expected to return? Night.
Where were they returning from? Castle.
What direction? Northwest.
How many other goblins are there at your other home on the other end of the tunnel? Many, more than 40, only half fight, came here to get wine.
How far is this from their home? 20 minutes, through the tunnel.
Only Goblins live here and your other home? Or others? Bugbears.
How many bugbears? as many as the goblins? More fighters, less others.
Goblins and Bugbears work together? No. Yes. Goblins hiding here from the bugbears, pick on the goblins.
How did the BUgbears enter the 'other home'? No (won't say). Can we escort Scruffy home through the tunnel? No. Do the bugbears have a home of their own? besides your home? Yes. No.
Do you live in the stone keep? No.
-> "He said the bugbears live in the castle he never responded to anything about a stone keep" Bob
-> "Everything about Bugbears is Castle" Bob
-> "When you ask about stone keep, he says no" Bob
-> "so, Castle = Keep" Conclusion
Does the Castle have two guards at the gate? Yes.
Do you live in a castle where the trees are all created around it? No. Stuff.
Do you like one word answers? (no answer. ironic, no?!).
Do the Goblins make their own bows? No.
Did you get enough breakfast? Yes.
Thank you for speaking to HRANK for us. Happy.
Can the tunnel door open from this side? No.
Show us how to open? Points to middle of rack of casks. Actually pointing to other side of door.

Billy Interrogation, through Scruffy:

Does billy live in the castle? Yes.
Does the Bugbear King live in the castle? Yes.
Any traps around the castle? Yes. No.
How many bigbears in the castle? more than 50 sometimes.
What's your real name? HRANK.
Is there a treasure room? Yes.
What is the password? different one daily.
Today, is it dayfour? Yes.
Is the treasure room guarded by more than...? Btw 5 and 10. Sometimes.
Magic weapons in treasure room? Yes.
Treasure Room location? Not ground, top, or lowest.
Is the treasure hidden? No.
Where does the King live? not Ground, or Lowest level.
King's Guards: btw 5 and 10.
Dragons in the area? Yes.

3-23 Mario

Lots of rambling.

After reading the description on the website about Bugbears, the last sentence of the first paragraph reads : " In addition, most bugbears can speak the language of goblins and hobgoblins." Link Here Maybe we can get some useful information from our larger prisoner via our smaller prisoner. The bugbear may be from this clan and have knowledge of the Keep, either layout or headcount. He realizes we haven't killed him yet and are being kind (?!) to him or her, so he must have Stockholm Syndrome to some degree; let's see if this canary will sing.

About the casks: have we verified if any are full? Do we know, if full, what they are full of? I thought I remembered that the three smaller casks stacked up would reach the larger cask spigot? (who knows if any of this is accurate; my memory is worse than my typing). Not sure what that would mean anyway.

I assumed the bugbears did not dig the tunnel even before we knew its smallish size, as I didn't think the bugbears built the keep. A four foot tunnel is still too small to fit the larger casks, so we still don't know how they appeared here.

Entering the Keep: given the two options, tunnel or front door, obviously the tunnel would be better. I cannot imagine all the passageways are so cramped. The openness of the area surrounding the keep is worrisome. We, not too long ago, encountered a swooping dragon eating buffalo. Maybe the two guards on the battlements are looking skyward to prevent being the next meal. Or even looking out for our friends, the Birdmen. A run-up of 1500 feet in relative openness would serve us up as an appetizer if the dragon, or his friends, returns.

That is all for tonight. Thanks for your patience.

3-18 Lisa

I thought I would try to consolidate everything we learned so far. Please add to and correct if I have gotten things wrong or am missing things.

Bugbear Keep:

Trees have all been chopped down in surrounding area. Highest brush cover was 4 ft

Keep: Appears to have four levels. Two battlement levels and two levels below. The Keep appears to be made entirely of stone with some small windows.

Gateway Entrance: This is the only entrance / exit from the Keep. Two inattentive guards stand watch. We found a list of nine passwords from the dead bugbear priestess and concluded that we need to use a password to enter the Keep.

Lower Level Battlement: One attentive guard

Upper Level Battlement: One attentive guard

Guard shift change at noon.

Patrol of 12 bugbears leave at dusk. Gate guards quickly inspect patrol as they go out.

No bugbear daytime patrols

No animals or other creatures seen in the immediate area – they know this is a dangerous place to wander into compared to the cover of the woods?

Cellar:

Well: unexamined

Secret Door: lock/unlocks from the passage side; too small to have been built by bugbears; unexplored.

Goblin & bugbear: need to explore what, if anything, they know about all this

3-16 Mario

Sorry for such a late post, but... life. Looking just a day out:

It's funny, but during the game session, I did not give any thought to the size of the objects in the room. As I was lying in bed, I started to wonder the same thing Lisa did: How did the large casks fit through the trap door? I do not imagine they were built there. I chalked it up to simple unscaled graphics for the sake of looking good more than being actual size. However, it is totally possible there are secret doors in the room. (I didn't even consider the stone floors; great call, Lisa!) But by the same logic then, if there IS another way into the basement, why are there grooves on the tree branch? Hmmm, gotta love a good mystery.... A thorough sweep of the two rooms is a must, IMO. If there is a another entryway, then I think we definitely explore it. It may provide a better entrance to the keep.

Are we on a time schedule? Does the party have to return by any specific date? If so, how much time do we have?

As for recon, I think the sneakies should sneak close, find a hiding spot, and simply observe. It may take a few game hours to get an idea about the numbers and kinds of bad guys in the area. If the demi-humans form a party, and they are being cautious (that goes without saying, of course), their encounter chance should be minimal. The humans may have a higher risk of detection, simply for being human. Maybe a second line closeby as backup may be a good idea.

3-13

Good thoughts from Lisa and Carissa and TMO so far.

I will say that being all sneaky elf like out on a scouting mission will be very helpful but it is not foolproof. You still get encounters, just likely have a different way of dealing with them.

The people back at the ruins will have encounters too and will deal with those.

There is lots of moving pieces.

Remember not to plan too far out, just for during the day is good enough.

And no plan survives first contact....

3-12 Lisa

Here are the results of my thoughts from the weekend.

Perhaps Mario and TMO can plan their recon action strategy this week. My only thoughts to contribute would be to have a second line behind the front line stealthy peoples at a distance to make sure they know if something bad happens. All of that strategic planning I am not good at, so I will leave it up to you.

I was thinking I would keep Branwyn in the bunker casting investigatory spells. Even with the cellar, I worry about leaving so much people/stuff unattended. Since I have two characters and can always find fun things to do with them, I volunteer Branwyn to stay for this first part. I would probably leave Indigo behind for the actual Keep attack. Branwyn and Branadarus can stick around, open some wine, guard the NPCs and cart/mule, and try to gather intel from the bugbear note and captives. I think Branwyn is the only one with any kind of comprehend language capabilities so it would be a good use of her skills and maybe we will learn something.

She can also cast detect secret passages and portals on an 1,100 sq ft area with 100% accuracy, and so I thought I would have her do that. I’m thinking there has to be a secret door somewhere in those two rooms. Here’s what I was thinking about that:

Yes, there was a trapdoor and the appearance of a tree pulley system. But a couple of things are sticking in my head. Could they really fit those big wine casks through the trap door? And what is with the stone floors? That is really weird to me. I get the underground wine cellar. But wouldn’t you just have compacted earth as your floor? See, I’m a very literal person. When I get told or shown things I start picturing how to make these things happen in real life and so that is where the strange notions in my head sometimes come from. I’m having a hard time thinking about pulling all those stones down there to create flooring, dropping enough wood down there to build the casks and floor to ceiling wine shelves. All of that for a tower cellar?

Bob said the ruins were of a tower and there is a Keep a mile off. Could this have been an old guard tower? Could the underground wine cellar connect via a secret passage to the Keep’s kitchen? Or maybe the courtyard, which could lead to our doom if used without proper preparation. If there is a secret passage, we could explore the opening sections. I don’t think we should necessarily be opening actual Keep doors a mile away without knowing what we would be walking into, but it would be nice to know about them so we have more options for when it comes down to actual Keep infiltration.

Anyway, that should be enough to keep Branwyn busy while the others do some recon.

3/11 TMO

Adding a priest spell we should cast on as many front-line warriors as we can before we go on outings:
Iron Vigil lvl2 For {7+$L} days, the target has no need for food or drink and can easily withstand harsh climes. Sleep can be replaced with meditation.

Not so much for the food/water issue, but because there's no worry about waking people up at night. All the warriors are just meditating when they're not on watch. They may even be able to meditate while wearing armor (but I suspect not).

My first thought was for the spellcasters, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Bob wouldn't allow that meditation to replace sleep for the purposes of spell memorization.

3-10 Lisa

Just to clarify on the Massmorph spell, it's a turn into trees spell only. Also, it only works on willing creatures, so I don't think it would work on the mule moving the cart. He would most likely be killed if we leave him sitting around by himself, and we would have to pull the cart ourselves all the way back.

Branwyn also doesn't have the Massmorph spell memorized right now and so the soonest she could cast it would be tomorrow after she gets a full night's sleep. The priests that can change themselves into trees might like to think about it though, as that would force them to sleep all night and not be tempted to wake up during a night encounter.

Branwyn doesn't have a mass polymorph spell. And like I said below, polymorphing anyone other than herself involves the possible loss of identity. If she changed Kel into a bugbear, for example, there is a chance he might think he really is a bugbear and would continue to think so after he was changed back. That is besides the system shock rolls he or anyone else would have to pass.

Still waiting on a Bob review of the polymorph self spell for a would she be able to speak/understand bugbear if she did polymorph herself judgment call.

3/10 Mario

Lots of interesting thoughts below. Here's my two cents, worth significantly less than that even.

I agree we should inspect the ruins. We know spiders lurk in the area. I believe we are all in relative good health, so it would be worth the effort. I do not know who the swimmers are, but if that force is formidable, let's have at it. We may also be able to lure some spiders out for ranged attacks. The one didn't seem keen to crossing the stream, so this can be used to our advantage. The more we can take out safely, the better.

PS:: Apparently, Kel misspoke when he said the ruins weren't man-made. The ruins were man-made, as per Bob's clarification. So sorry!

Kel did not get a good enough glimpse of the keep structure: only that a building resembling a keep was about a mile to the west, up the hill. He could make out at least one building. He was a bit concerned with falling to his death to get a more accurate scouting report for the team.

I think we definitely need to get a good recon of the keep. We have enough sneaky types to get some good info relatively safely. If time permits, even a recon during night hours, to see about patrols, etc. Once we know more about numbers and keep size, we can formulate a plan. The non-sneaky crew can be at the base camp, a safe distance from the keep.

I was thinking along the lines of blending in, a la Lisa's Polymorph. If we can Massmorph into trees, can we massmorph into bugbears? Save the caster, of course. If we could speak the language, we could play the caster off as a prisoner. Easy in, i imagine, as long as we don't have to speak. But at some point, the ruse would be blown, and now we're kinda pinned down, deep in the keep. What about weapons, armor, etc. of those polymorphed?

For an undisturbed night's sleep, or protecting the non-raiding teammates, massmorphing into trees sounds like a plan as well

So definitely check the ruins, and recon the keep thoroughly.

3-6 TMO

This close to the bugbear fort, what about using the Massmorph spell that turns everybody into trees? IIRC, the caster will have to stick around to unmorph everyone the next morning though. And we'd have to hide the wagon somehow. But we could always leave the NPCs and horses as trees while we handle the bugbears. Just some random thoughts. I'm not sure it's actually a practical plan though. Lots of ways it could go wrong.

3-5 Lisa

So many issues… My thoughts below.

If the ruins are only 100 feet across the stream – they are viewable, I would like to have the swimmers go over and check it out for clues or loot. Seems a shame to just leave it when it won’t take long to explore. This way we don’t have to worry about taking the cart over a waterbody, etc.

We are very close to the keep and so on watches we might expect to see some bugbear patrols. So only small fires, if anything, overnight and we should expect/need to kill any bugbears that come upon us. Runaways could be a real problem for us if we want an element of surprise.

I want Branwyn to get a full night’s sleep. She does want to burn a spell on comprehend languages and read that priestess note and maybe show it to the captured bugbear to see if he says anything about it, etc. The more information we have the better and besides she needs to reorganize her spells for possible battle.

No, I do not want to take the cart and the NPCs to the keep. It completely removes stealth possibilities and puts NPCs in danger. However, this is not safe territory and if we leave the cart and NPCs, we need a guard. I would volunteer Indigo for that duty.

The reason I had Branwyn talk to the bugbears last time we fought them was to see how easy the possibility of a “parlay” option was. I don’t think we are going to be talking our way into an audience with the King without some serious magic assistance and even then, it might be difficult for even a couple of charmed bugbears to lead armed 6-8 PCs in to see the King without resistance from others at the keep. I don’t think we can risk going in unarmed as they don’t seem to be the honorable types.

I would like to hear more from Kel (Mario & Bob) as to what he saw when he looked at the Keep from above. Was it one building? A multiple building settlement? Wood or stone structures? Could we set stables on fire for example as a distraction, etc.? Things that would make it easier to plan.

If we don’t have details, then I do think reconnaissance from our stealthier characters would be a smart plan, with the non-cart people behind a bit for back-up in case there is trouble. So three tiers – 1. cart people safely away, 2. non-stealth people closer to stealth people in case Kel falls off a platform into a bunch of centipedes or something. :) Bad rolls can happen to anyone at any time. And 3. stealth people doing reconnaissance. Then we can decide how to best approach the keep.

Branwyn spell capabilities: She doesn't really have any great reconnaissance spells. As you saw by my hitting the wrong button - I do have a try to make someone believe my lie spell, but no charms, flying or invisibility spells.

She can teleport/dimension door, but she would need another spell to get back (if needed) and when she appears, she just appears. Now for an attack, that can be a useful time saver to get from here to there, but is not sneaky in the result. One or two people can come along for the ride, so it wouldn't necessarily only be her if that seems like a viable tool.

Branwyn can also polymorph herself into a bugbear. I would need a Bob judgment call to see if she could speak bugbear when under the spell or would just look like one. My thought reading it is that she would not be able to. But that could be an interesting camouflage. The spell would last 22 turns or a little over 3 1/2 hours. Because bugbears have the capability to speak Common, she would still be able to cast like Branwyn as long as she takes her spell components belt pouch with her.

It is too dangerous to polymorph someone else's character - 2 system shock rolls, possible loss of identity, etc. Polymorph other is a spell for enemies and not friends.

3-5 BOB

This is the time to start making some plans about how you are going to approach the bugbear keep. You know you are about a mile away from the keep at this point. Nearby you have a small set of ruins to explore. It is the beginning of the night so you will have watches to organize and decide what to do about spell casters who have no spells.

Will you send in scouts towards the keep first? Everyone go in together? Aerial recognizance? Magical recognizance? Who stays back? Are you really going to take the cart and everything right up to the bugbear keep?

I want people to talk about what you want to do and what you will actually do. This is a nice challenge for everyone, it is not intended to be done in one session so planning without beating a dead horse will be good. Then people will know what actions everyone wants to take when we log in.

BOB

Below conversations were about a different keep found on this adventure

For our next session (Dec 23 16) I have updated the map of the hills to include a line to show the 500 foot mark away from the keep. Now that you know you have goblins up on the battlements I thought you would like to have an idea of how far things are and how long you would have to travel while being fired upon.

I think you have options I will let everyone come up with ideas here and In Character as well.

We believe we will have Lisa, Spring, Mario, Michael with TMO likely and Carissa unsure.

12-18 Lisa

I was thinking about the approach to the keep next session and wanted to share my thoughts. When there’s a break in sessions sometimes I step back and look at things differently than I do when the pressure’s on to move forward in game. So …

We walk up to a keep that is inhabited by, at the very least, an unknown number of goblins. Do we kill them all? Is our mission to enter people’s homes and commit mass murder? And what does that say about us? (i.e., meaning about our characters and not us personally) It’s not like the goblins attacked us first. Really not trying to be judgmental. Like I said – these are just the thoughts that run through my head.

Another thought. This seems to be quite the elaborate setup for a bunch of goblins. A fighter can kill a goblin basically with a whack of his hand, and here they are all set up in this protected keep while the outskirts of the area are surrounded by sirens, minotaurs, and potentially gorgons. How do they get the best home in the neighborhood? With a pretty nice undead alarm system as well. My theory is - they don’t. I think this is not a goblin keep. The goblins are the guards. They are first line of defense for the person/thing that really lives here.

If we go with that theory, what happens if we break into someone’s house and kill all the guards and then meet the person/thing in charge? “Sorry, we just wanted to take a look around and so we decided to kill everything that moved to make our task a lot easier. Nice to meet you. Seen any scrolls around here?” 

Now, I know the front door was broken, so that is sort of an invitation to walk right in. And I could be completely wrong about all of this. These were just passing thoughts about the keep and its inhabitants and I wanted to toss it out there for feedback. I was wondering if anyone spoke goblin? Priest spells maybe? Branwyn can cast comprehend languages, but would only be able to understand what they are yelling and not be able to talk to them. If we want to go that route. We can always stick to the original plan and combat our way through.

Thoughts?

12/22 Spring

I take Lisa's point and agree. I'd rather try to find out who the place belongs to and negotiate the information we seek. Don't know what to do about the language barrier, though, unless it's possible to also cast comprehend languages on someone else.

Could we send in a small squad to just go in and surrender, to see who they get turned over to? Really risky, but we are Dragonslayers right?

12/22 Lisa

Thanks for posting back, Spring! Your post made me run back to the spell books to check on the Comprehend Languages spell. Spells always have a catch, don't they? I don't think I can transfer the spell to someone else, but I really liked that idea. It's a touch spell that works on the caster from the thing he/she touches. The spell says the wizard touches the creature or material (books, scrolls) and then the caster can comprehend languages for 55 rounds in Branwyn's case. So our conversation would have to consist of nods, shaking of heads and a possible impromptu game of charades :)

12/22 Carissa

Not a bad plan, but I think we need to figure out what our goal is exactly (or maybe just I do). In their backstory, Kel and Shi already bypassed the keep since there were no bugbear signs. If I'm reading the chat from two weeks ago correctly, this keep is new and may not be the one Indigo (and others?) are looking for, either, so is there a good way to just check? What's the goal with this keep? Again, I could be missing something. Or perhaps you guys simply like exploring keeps for fun. I can get behind that (if no one dies) ;).

On that note, since I'll be missing half of Friday (or all if I'm unlucky), I vote someone go surrender! What could go wrong? :D

12/22 Lisa

I am so sorry. I just realized reading your post that we didn’t really explain what we’re doing running around looking at keeps. The bugbear-stolen weapons quest that we both share is actually a side/after quest for the main group. It is a search I thought we would be doing after we finished this quest, or if we accidentally happened to run into a bunch of bugbears, etc.

Let me see if I can make a short version…

We promised the bastard son of the local Prince we would find the identity of his birth parents. We asked the Grand Celestry Library (Kayugen faith), who keep lots of records and can do divination, etc. They will look for us, IF we find these scrolls containing military treatises rumored to be in the “lost keep” of the Paladin Art Brandish (who lived approx. 80-100 yrs. ago). We narrowed it down to 3 possibilities. This current keep is Keep No. 2. Keep No. 1 was a pile of ruins with nothing there. So basically we are looking to find a few small, easily hidden items in large places.

  • Extra info for later, otherwise known as another BOB moral dilemma: Certain leaders at the Grand Celestry have been known to be plotting a crusade against another religious sect. Branwyn has a nagging feeling if she hands military treatises from one of the greatest military minds to these religious zealots, they will use them to gain an advantage and begin their war against the Greeks. So, we will be faced with a decision when we get to see these scrolls. Do we hand them over to keep our promise to the kind son of the Prince, or do we destroy the scrolls to try to avert a holy war? But these are questions for after we find them.

12/23 Carissa

Ah, okay. That makes sense. (And that is a good hesitation for handing the scrolls over). So there is a goal and there is no easy way to go about it, especially since the group has been seen and is being watched (and cannot try to sneak through again). Any long distance spells? Create fog on the battlements? My dislike of goblins might carry on to my character so if they die, well, eh, goblins?

But really. Someone surrender. ;)

12/23 Spring

Planting a thought for later - when we get the scrolls we should duplicate them and give the duplicates to the intended victims. That way we've honored our word without putting them in harm's way.

If we can't negotiate, we might have to thieve.