Deep Dark Dangerous - out of character discussions
8/7/09
"The conditions needed to bring the spell into effect must be clear, although they can be rather general."
If you read about other characters in the Forgotten Realms that have the contingency spell cast on them they use "0 hitpoints" as a marker.
Fritz
8/5
Well Thank you but I do not consider our characters know what hit points are. Even if I say "just before I die" then the spell does not work on living objects.
John
8/4/09
I have a potion that temporarily (20 min) disenchants items, spells, spell effects. So your Deep Freeze spell is back up.
Next time have your contingency spell cut in at 0 hitpoints so we can save you before you die.
Fritz
8/2
Well, from a character point of view, you did what I would think is in the best interest of the party. When you say "Temporarily disenchanted", does that mean Paul is back under Deep Freeze? My understanding is it would have to be dispelled and I doubt anyone else can cast such a rare spell. It certainly changes my options. At the moment I am quite neutral about loosing Paul and have already done some work on another character option, but I certainly don't want Lori to come back for a character, but for the players, when she wants. At least we all have two weeks to think and talk about this all, BOB has already given me the option to play an NPC until we see what happens to Paul.
John
IF Rave was really in character, he would have reposed Paul into an even funnier pose.
8/1/09
Well if you play the record backward you hear "Paul is a dead man, Paul is a dead man."
He was killed because he thought he was more powerful then a bunch of puny insects...Ha see if he ever calls me "Bug" again!! Ok joking aside it was a tragic evening and despite some great role playing and reaction by Moirra, Paul's roll playing was worse. He then went into "Deep Freeze". Reviewing his Last Will and Testament he states he only wants to be brought back to life by Kylia. Now it would be awesome if Lorie comes back for an extended period or even a cameo appearance but there are no guarantees. Moirra was going to "Speak with Dead" and see if Paul would be willing to let Finglas bring him back from the great beyond. That is up to John to decide. I can always boost Fin's level if he needs it. In the meantime I temporarily disenchanted the spell on Paul and removed his magic items and divied them amongst those who were there at the time to help ensure we survive to the surface. Also we needed the Control Crystal for the Pool to get home. All of his items have currently been willed to his henchmen and they will be given to them immediately upon our return to Gon. If you look on Paul's character sheet it says who got what and that it would be returned. Also on each person's character sheet it states the same thing. No one is STEALING anything. As much fun as role playing can be I don't want to have to deal with people accusing me or my characters of doing anything like that at the next game session. I just want to move on and play. If Paul should decide he wants to come back of course everything will be given to him immediately upon his return as well.
Fritz
7/17
Mike should be in tonight but then will miss the next three weeks. Guy will not be in tonight. We will being playing the next two weeks then take a week off - play a week - then take a week off.
Those dates are already on the Update page and the Trade Wars page.
I am willing to break the mold a bit here and give you fewer encounters tonight so that the evening ends in the temple. Then double up some of the encounters on the way back out as you are not plane shifting home this time.
We shall see what happens
BOB
7/17/09
I just wanted to inform everyone I will not be able to play next week July 24 as I will be having my neck surgery. So if at all possible lets move quickly tonight and get as much done as possible.
Fritz
7/16
Quick update fro those who missed last week. Bob apparently did not want to kill us, and it was a slow night. We had two encounters. An illuion of someone stated reading Paul's mind and changing to be people he knows, Paul thinking it was a dopplganger signaled Rave to attack it but we could not find where the illusion was comming from. We took a short cut through some holes in the "floor" that were guarded by a kobold with a wand of fire. While Paul thought the threat was much greater, Rave and Morria solved the issue without harming the little guy.
John
7/10
Well that leaves the only other "official" fighter in the group to be Val'Iant at this time. He is only 5th level and not souped up in anyway as far as stuff like that is concerned. It will be up to the group to consider if they wish to utilize him as the tank of the group till we can get someone else. In the meantime he will continue to walk in the back and protect Mentor unless you all wish him promoted. I can provide him with potions of heroism, super heroism or invulnerability and that should help out a bit. But it will take 2-3 rounds depending on the circumstance for him to be boosted for any combat. I can play Rave more agressively if the party wishes. All this I will leave to you all. If you wish me to play them this way say so in the game (I won't bring it up), otherwise I will not change their basic action plans.
Fritz
7/10/09
I think it would be foolhardy to count on Liam to 'fill the gap'. Guy can't play today (he's closing), he will be late if on at all on the 17th, and the 24th he will be returning from school and there's a 95% chance he won't be online. So, you see, 'boosting Liam up' will not make a difference to the adventure at this point.
K
7/7/09
John I totally agree with you that the loss of Anterias has potentially weakened the part by 50%. Now some may disagee as to the actual amount but let's all accept it is substantial. I propose that for the time being we do our best to boost Liam up as much as possible to fill in the gap. I designed the Dwarven Defender kit so I am aware of some of the potential benifits that were lost but I feel that given the right equipment and buffs Liam will do very well.
As to being able to pull off the same rescue twice we probably will have to use a wish to wish that it will even work before we wish for him to come back!!!
Fritz
7/7
A) Finglass is not self apointed, just defacto the way the game has developed B) There is no way any current characters can come close to making up for the loss of Antaris, luckly we still have the "2" of the one two punch in Finglass C) Once you accept B) above, then you see how difficult it will be to get him back though combat. I say what worked for Rave, Liam and Morria, will work for Antaris. Wish baby wish D) I am glad to see we are able to let "things" go, even when things as critical as this happen
Enjoy,
John
7-6
I am going to treat the rescue of Antarias as part of the next adventure after Deep Dark Dangerous is completed. When that adventure is explained I anticipate that there will be a few sessions in preparation and planning PLUS much needed discussions here on the site for the group to complete the final adventure in the Trade Wars Era. That final story arc will be involved and a challenge to complete. HOW you choose to complete it will matter as much as IF you complete it.
Then after that is over we will all sit down and have a big discussion about the "State of the Game" and where we want to go from there.
7/5/09
Quick update;
Well Finglas the self appointed leader of the Dragonslayers decided we should post haste go to Khazefryn rather than taking a half day to loot the temple of Khamsa. So with with a fast pool travel we ended up in the dwarven city. Well do to past deaths, and abandonments by the DS'ers the guide guild wouldn't let us hire any dwarves to take us to Khazefryn. So Finglas in a moment of brillance conned Bob to allow a djinni to have the same powers as an invisible stalker. Therefor with our new high powered tracker we were off to the underdark. Well some minor action and then we met a gnome and took a short side trip to their underground town. The had a problem with something slaying their miners. They asked us for help but they were refused by the leadership of the DS'ers. Of course it was providence that the menace that was killing gnomes happened to be in the direction we were taking. A minor skirmish with some low level drow and their giant lizard and we solved the gnomes problem. We continued on thinking this was going to be another walk in the park when suddenly a Yochlol (handmaiden daemon of Lloth) appeared. She had "dominated" Antarias and in 1 quick round took him to the Abyss with her. Well immediately we made plans on our return to try and rescue Finglas' brother, but first we had to finish the journey to Khazefryn. There was of course a second set back. Antarias was wearing the ring of Djinni summoning. So although it was ruled the Djinni stayed with us to finish the last command of Antarias, we knew at any moment the Yochlol could either take possession of the ring or force Antarias to recall the Djinni. So we were forced to make a one day detour back to the gnome town and inform them that since we solved their problem we would indeed ask for a guide to assist us in our travels through the underdark. We have passed the "disappearing bridge" and on the otherside waiting to continue our quest.
3 things of note...
1). if we had had an icon for the Djinni it is possible we could have utilized him against the Yochlol. Antarias was briefly in Moirra's "protection from evil 10 foot radius spell, so there could be called into question the Yochlol's continued ability to control him. 2). He could have commanded the Djinni to attack the Yochlol while she was still in gaseous form. 3).If he wasn't actively being dominated she would have had to completely materialize and physically attack him and then try and force him to accompany her to the Abyss.
Be that as it may, we are indeed well past that now and it is of note in the future should we come across another such encounter.
So currently we have 3 fighters active in the group. Finglas and his mighty bow being the most devastating physical attack. Liam of course being the most powerful at melee attacks at this time, and Val'Iant being only 5th level. Hopefully John will be able to play next time as the firepower of Paul will truly be needed to offset our physical weakness.
Fritz
3/24/09
Thank you all for the comments, feel free to continue them.
1 - I have a plan for a full campaign reset. Not because I want to make people stop playing their characters but I know how dangerous this adventure is overall and the possibility that everyone will die.
2 - You don't have enough to survive down here no matter how much you think you have.
3 - Mike your priest is ignored because you continually ignore opportunities to be a priest. FIRST thing that should happen when someone goes down for the count is a priest runs up to check that person out. When no one moves forward it looks like there is no priest available to move forward. Plus the running gag about the group never having anyone who can turn undead furthers that notion.
4 - Your group chose this past session to go the way that has flooding rather than the way of the Slime. You know how to fight slime, I doubt anyone had a plan to fight off a flood.
5 - Your NPCs are real people too, no one every asked them about anything else than getting to point B (or K in this instance) so that is all they are doing. They are not rushing out to the lead, they are only guiding and so are near the front.
6 - I think Valgar's death was a great one. Guy played the character the way he should have been played.
7 - John should come when he wants, for as long as he wants.
8 - This adventure affects all of the Dragonslayers, and by association all of the NPC's, Followers, etc. The group might have some secret handshake initiation but the rest of the world sees people traveling with Kylia, Paul, Finglas and you are a Dragonslayer. You inherit the good and bad parts of that relationship. Good parts are you rarely get bothered by negligible encounters. Bad thing is you attract more obnoxious encounters.
9 - Yes the group is high level. I have lots of adventures I can't run **because you are not high enough level yet** so when you do get to that point there will be things that challenge everyone.
10 - I think one thing that is frustrating people is they have an idea about the Underdark and this is not turning into what you thought you knew. Then again, how many of you know what Deep Lizard Men are (the ones you got attacked by) and did anyone investigate any further after that encounter? (quick check --- no )
11 - One reason the last session started slow was you needed to make rolls successfully find the treasure. Then I told the group to roleplay introductions while I was checking on stats. No one did any roleplay. Hence waiting for me, feels slower.
12 - There is an inherent problem that will continue to slow the group down the way you are investigating. You are sending an invisible flying pixie with no visible light out in front to see the lay of the land. I have to tell that player what they see, then he has to relay that to the rest of the group. It can only go so fast unless I rail road you into not having any choices of path (so I can prep all the text ahead of time). You can make that go faster by changing tactics, but I would not require that at all.
13 - During the first trip down people complained about certain encounters. Those have not happened again.
14 - This is the Underdark. It is dangerous. If you had lost that guide last session (and came within a couple rounds of doing so) you would have been totally screwed. You are in a place called by your experienced guides as the Maze. You do not know the way to K, you do not know the way home. You have not made a single friend down here among any of the communities that you could have. (most you simply missed some you failed a test) You only have a couple of weeks worth of food and supplies left at this point and no safe way home.
15 - The long way was never advertised as a safe way. I fully expect at least one or two more characters to die. You have not even encountered significant enemy spell casters yet. Just wait till a well planed ambush of warriors and spell casters who can lie in wait because they can hear the group coming from a long way off.
16 - All in All I think this is working out about how I expected it to.
17 - This is only trip #2 through here, and I have at least a third trip planned. By the time this part of Trade Wars is done you will really understand what the Underdark is about and be more aware when you go down in the Spider Lady Dungeon, The Memorial Dungeon, or in Thedd and find entrances to the Underdark.
18 - I am having fun, I hope everyone else is.
Bob
3/23/09
I don't dispute or disparage your right to feel the way you feel, but I do feel it's easy for you to say start with a clean slate when you've been playing your various characters for years. My character doesn't rule a little corner of the world, and even though she hasn't any interest in ruling a corner, she should still be able to go adventuring. I don't wish to retire Moirra. Also, I don't think she would last five minutes on her own, even though she's got a slightly better mace and a couple helpful pieces of armour. Maybe you guys have everything you want or need.
If some of you are so bored with your characters, then retire them and make new ones. If you want to do lower level adventures, then maybe we should. Even the same level we are, but without all the bells and whistles. Personally, I'm still enjoying the occasional chances to roleplay, the occasional chances to do some healing or whatever. I don't feel stagnant, I feel like there is a world of possibilities for Moirra, or for whomever I choose to be.
I will say that one thing we didn't do this past winter was a guest DM. Maybe we need to take a break and do that. I won't volunteer to DM because I suck at it, but it's a thought that should maybe be considered.
I agree that sometimes things move at a slower pace than is fun. That is often as much the players' faults as the DM's.
In the end, it is not the entire group that is stagnating, but some of the 'older' players/characters. Guy worked hard on creating Liam, Vicki worked hard on Min Sun, and I am only starting to get into the groove of playing Moirra.
And Fritz, it was not boredom that led Guy to having Valgar "kamikaze" on the gravel. It was Valgar becoming impatient with all the yakking, and acting as impetuously as he was wont to do. Had he made his roll, he would have lived, and been happy to do so. He was not trying to die, was not trying to liven things up (although he did), was not doing anything but roleplaying - letting Valgar act exactly the way he was created to.
Kaz
3/23/09
I've been waiting a few days since Friday to let off some frustration before i posted anything. Must say that I agree with Fritz that it should be DDB. On Friday I was very annoyed with the pacing the game took. We hit the first gray ooze at 9 o'clock, and that was the first encounter of the night. And if you think about it, every adventure has it's monster theme, we had the golem adventure, the oddball wizard type adventure, this is apparently the ooze adventure. So we should just buckle down and be prepared to slog through the slime. Which is awesome since we don't have any full time mages in the group anymore, and they are the best asset at handling them.
Bob, I know that you wanted to get across the idea that we were in cramped areas, but it seemed to take forever with that. And then our paid guide had to describe the passages in slow detail to us and told us to choose which one to take, well he's our guide. We're tall people for the most part. It's his job to take us the most suitable way. I almost feel like the guides are useless. Especially since they keep running up front and dying. I'd also like to point out that I've been running a priest for several years now. Hell, it seems every encounter I'm casting spells more than arrows down here in the underdark. So when someone's poisoned and needs a priest spell it gets more annoying and frustrating every week you say it's hopeless because we don't have a priest. A: WE DO! B: If we don't, then don't do shit only a priest can handle! I would have been equally pissed off if I wasn't a priest and you had everyone poisoned.
As for you John, I know you're not always available. And don't get me wrong, but I love when you do have the time to give to the game. Even if it's just for an hour or two a week. But Fritz has a point about Paul's attitude. If he's so disinterested in the group he used to lead, then retire him and make someone who cares. It's a bit of a downer when every week we get to hear Paul talk about how he doesn't care about the matters that affect us because he's no longer a part of the DS'ers.
Also, I agree with Fritz that the group is starting to stagnate. He has a good point. When we find thousands of coins, and I can say who cares about trading them for normal currency, we're done. Moirra gave up her magic hammer, so I made her an even better one. Ant didn't get magic item rolls as a henchman, so Lorie had Kylia forge him up a kick ass uber armor set. At one point Bibo and I sat there and made dozens of scrolls of (wait for it...) cure disease just to have around on emergencies (and yes, they're all in the party pack). I've said it to Bob before, I'd almost relish a clean slate. I've enjoyed playing Fin, I've enjoyed getting his kingdom, I like the morning reports and management factors it brings to the game, but actual adventuring with him is lacking something. Popping all around the world in the pool, never having a care in the world for money, always having someone back home who has just the skill we need at any given point... It's kind of lacking the excitement of lower level adventurings. But I would enjoy even less running our henchmen. If we're ever going to do a low level adventure I would call for a full wipe. Let our characters rule their little secions of the world and start over fresh somewhere else.
-mikE
3/21/09 am (2:50 am)
John I didn't mean to make this in any form or fashion towards you as an "Ouch". I hope by now you know that I consider you an exceptional player, person, and most of all friend. I am mainly concerned about how happy you may be in the game, and although probably not warranted made suggestions to hopefully provide you with an incentive to stay in the game and play. If my words offended you in anyway I apologize. I hope you understand that I am a fairly aggressive player so therefore I may take a skewed view on things. I never mean to offend anyone, but if I view things differently please never hesitate to correct me. I agree with you that Bob does indeed try to tailor things to the current player participation within every session, I have just recently felt things were a little bit under rated.
Fritz
3/21/09 PM
Ouch. Sorry you do not approve. If anyone else thinks I take away from the game by posting suggestions or logging on to help the party in the current adventure, please let me know. And if you want me to complain, I can do that too. It strikes me as funny how I mention the “easy path” was almost as deadly as the dangerous path and you ask to turn the danger up a notch. Not all of us are here to power game. The ability of the party to handle threats varies greatly with who shows up. I think BOB does a decent enough job planning an adventure that include characters that can not be seen or hit and can do massive damage in one round with other character who are more utility characters. This is already sounding more and more like the same old arguments. Maybe some things will never change.
John
3/21/09
Actually I think it needs to be called Deep Dark and Boring. I know I was in and out last night, but so far our 2 travels into the underdark - an environment with many many varied and dangerous creatures the majority we have encountered so far are...Lizards (Either small rodent type, trogs, or lizardmen), Bats, grey oozes, and worms...This is really really sad. There is really no challenge so far. Honestly our lower level characters would have more of an adventure then we are having. As far as deaths...well the first death was unnecessary but Guy was getting bored so he kamikazied his own demise. And Tori's death was bad luck, or DM design. How else could a 4 hit die doppleganger over power and kill a 7th level fighter as powerful as she was. In the second half of the trails going back, I said let me scout ahead first and Bob took the first level dwarf guide and sent him down the bridge to fight a huge monster. That death was on Bob...I offer as always to go first, but he was obviously waiting for me to abandon the second boat, before moving me. As far as what happened after I left I don't know if anyone died, but if you catapult enough kobolds at a giant eventually you will hurt him. So if someone got injured by the grey ooze this time, well probability theory states that you can die of a butterfly landing on your head...it is a tremendously small possibility, but it can happen.
I would suggest to Bob to rethink the adventures he has planned for us during this second romp in the underdark. Get us some better monsters, some more adventure. Heck we should be forging our way through to Kazefryn. If the hardest thing we are doing so far is deciding if we take the moss covered path or the lichen covered path, that is a testimony itself how wimpy this is. I would say let's never come back, not because the underdark is dangerous, but because it is so boring. At this point, I could honestly say that anyone of our higher level characters could have made this journey by themselves with only a guide.
Also John you keep saying that Paul has no interest in being down here or taking part in this adventure. Let's take role play aside for a minute...That doesn't really motivate the party (as in the players) to really work together or play together. Mike said once that we need to stop splitting ourselves up from each other and decide to work towards a common goal, and unifying persona. Sure it may not be something that is directly tied to you, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't take a part in the leading of the adventure, especially it that is one of the things you do best. If you want to be technical about it, my character Rave has absolutely no business down here, neither does Guy's character, or Kaz's, or Vicki's. If anything the only ones who truly have any stake in this adventure is you, Mike, and Lorie because you 3 are the core of the Dragon Slayers, and you all are the ones who's names have been besmirched. The rest of us are "just along for the ride". Of course I don't see any of the rest of the group taking this attitude. By this I mean, if it is important to any ONE of the 3 of you then it is important to all of us. If Bob created an adventure to go and get a magic spoon for Guy's character to flavor his grub, I would take just as much interest as if it was an adventure to get me a magical castle. If you keep distancing yourself because you may or may not be able to play, please don't. Be a part of the adventure even if you can't always be a part of the game. If you are saying such things because you feel as "Paul" that is how he would feel, then maybe it would be a good time to simply decide to CHANGE Paul's attitude. You can do that after all women change their minds all the time...and after all, he was originally a she! Or this might be a good time to retire Paul and make a new character. One that you would be more interested in playing, and have take part in adventuring not because it will have a profit, or benefit him directly, but because your character WANTS to adventure. Like we used to in the old days when no one had any money, or magic items and we needed to go out and make our fame and fortune. When we weren't certain we could afford to eat, or buy a horse. I often have felt that the stagnation in the game is do to the "Dragonslayers". The group is to powerful, has to much stuff, can go anywhere and do anything. Hell we don't even keep track of money we spend. Now we don't give a shit how many rubles, or yen, or pesos we get. "Let's dump it all in the treasury". If we actually had no Dragonslayers Treasury, No Dragonslayers Keep, and we were nobodies again struggling to survive I bet the game would be more interesting. When losing your life is as important as losing your +1 shortsword, then the game is truly exciting. In the past we had to split up the treasure, each character got some, and then we put some in a common pool. This way people could purchase what THEY wanted, and the group could have money to help fund their adventures. Now we have so much we can randomly toss gems into a lake to feed a monster and not even worry what the value of them are or how many we dropped. I think it is too much. We don't have to start with first level. We could start with our current low level characters at 5th and just not have them have access to Daddy's Huge Trust Fund. Well it is just a suggestion. I know I went from a specific point off on a huge tangent. It's my schizophrenia acting up again.
Fritz
3/21/09
Last night was off, but not that far off. BOB had to reboot once and a couple people lost connections other times. It was one of those night we thought we were waiting for BOB but he was chatting with one of the players or waiting for us. Still we accomplished a few things. We even had time for a little role playing. I just feel bad I did not get to flirt as Kit with Liam as much as I was awkwardly chatting with Paul to Moria. I'll have to work on that.
Thanks for being there
John
Oh by the way, the long was must be more dangerous as we have already had almost as many people die.
3/20/09
How about "I wish Meleager to be here now and answer my questions truthfully"
John
PS Why wait 20 days, oh as Kaz if you really want to kill time in BOB's world, cast a divination spell. It will take half the night to come up with the question(s), 30 min. BOB to come up with an obscure answer and the rest of the night for the party to argue over what the answer means, second guessing the wording of the questions that were asked.
Please do not forget both Paul and I are only along for the ride. We are not intrested in the goose you are chasing.
3/20/09
Interesting idea, John. Use the wish to learn what we want to know. Problem with that is we would need a very, very well worded question. When you question someone, your first round of answers usually lead to more questions. But I'd be willing to try it if everyone else wishes to. After all, we used one wish already, we can blame both wishes lost on the kobolds.
mikE
3/20/09
Also, Moirra has some divination spells that "might" be helpful. Unfortunately, I won't be in tonight (setting up tonight for tomorrow's wedding, yay) but if you want to take a look at the lower level priest spells in the divination sphere (or, you know, just look on her sheet), and if you think anything she's got is useful, we can use it next session.
Kaz
3/20/09
the problem is there are serious limits on the wish thats on the sword. cant be used for frivolous things but it would be interesting to see exactly what you have in mind.
Guy
3/20/09
I was just rereading and thinking of recent events. We are going on a 20 day trip to see see one who will not like it if we do not give him what he wants, which is a sword with a wish. And that is just to talk to someone who no doubt will want something to tell us what we want. to know. Now I know we already talked about not making him give up the sword, but I wish can do remarkable things. Even something aas simple as letting us know what we want to know from the prisoner, or simply who is ultimatly behide the whole kit and kabootable. The shortest path is a straight line.
John
3/13/09
The skin was acidic only because it had come in contact with the grey ooze. That can be washed off with some alcohol. There is nothing about animals from the underdark dieing if they move to the surface world. It doesn't thrive there because of the darkness or the radiation, that is just where it was born. It is knows as one of the best familiars available also. Remember as well that familiars also develope extra resistance and abilities by the bonding. If your theory was correct then imps, pseudodragons and other exotic creatures wouldn't be able to survive outside of thier natural habitat yet they make excellent familiars.
Fritz
3/13/09
Keeping in mind that the differences between Fin and Rave have nothing to do with Mike and Fritz...
But dood, do you really think it's a good idea to have that lizard as a familiar? Bob did say that it's skin has an acidic corrosive on it. Wouldn't that kill a baby wizard on first touch? Also, don't most underdark creatures die in the sunlight? I wouldn't think that any underdark critter would live above ground, and if What's-his-name bonds with it, and it dies, there goes a point of Con.
And as I said, if everyone wants to go the short route, okay. But I'd think it would be boring. We've been there, done that. Although play time it could be faster since we know how to navigate all the obstacles.
I suppose we can make a quick vote at the start of tonight.
mikE
3/13/09
Well I will be back in the game (hopefully) tonight. I didn't participate in To Bite the Moon, because I know the dungeon extremely well and could have accidently been a spoiler. I have run it at the designed level and also changed it for higher character levels to be more challenging. Bob did change it somewhat and I agree that it made it gimikee. It was designed for levels closer to our lower level characters, and the character stats should have been readjusted to that of gnoll player characters. If it had been played with our lower level characters without giving any hints as to how (if ever) they would be returned to normal I think some of you would have found it more enjoyable/challenging. For instance you would have been more intimidated by the gnolls than you were.
Anyway as far as which way to go back to Kazefryn keep in mind that the "short" way really wasn't that challenging. We lost 2 characters not due to the difficulty of the adventure but due to stupidity, and bad luck. I would hope that Bob would make the "long" way a more difficult adventure for us, but it is supposed to be the "safer" route so I doubt it. I would prefer to go the short way because I know the lizard I wish to retrieve for Mentor is that way, but I anticipate it is a somewhat ubiquitous organism and hopefully I would be able to get it on the alternate route. I would like to have the "box" prepared for it prior to traveling back to the underdark which ever way is chosen. I don't believe we need to take a bunch of extra characters with us no matter which way we traveled. So I doubt any person would need to bring more than one character. So I don't see why we need either Kit or Antarias.
As far as Liam "bonding" with the sword the issue is really going to be do we supercede the desire/possesion of one person for the good of the group. In otherwords he will have to give it up if we wish to get to question Meleager. I do agree with Kaz though that most likely the drow priestess wants the sword for the wish ability, although I doubt the alignment difference will allow her to use it.
See you all tonight
Fritz
3/12
Kit is no meat shield, in the way that Ant is. I would not leave him behide if I were you. Kit is just replacing a fewer dwarfs and protect Paul from the next beholder anti magic ray.
John
3/12/09
Okay, so that long winded post from Fin was to tell BOB and let you guys know what he's doing in response to these scrying attempts. We're going to be gone for about two weeks on this next trip down, so he's going to get intel from all the different groups in his area, keep them on their toes, and have his personal army on full alert while he's gone. If Kit is coming do we need Ant as the meat shield? If you all think Kit is enough I'll leave Ant behind on this trip.
mikE
3/6/09
Yes Mike, I'm sure there is NO other reason why Liam would protest the sword being given to evil creatures. Hrm.
I think another plus for taking the long route is that it gives us more time to figure out the best way to handle the drow bit...sorry, witch. Oh, priestess. Of course, there is always the issue of how many wishes are left on it - I think she's expecting a certain amount, and the fact that we've used one may be a real problem. What then?
Kaz
3/3/09
It is funny how BOB said that the group "bonded" with Liam. It could be a subtle hint that Liam has been possessed by the sword. From what I understand this is a valuable sword. Is what your going to get for it worth it? For game reasons, it seems it would be more fun to take the long way this time and most adventures are based on the players timing. What really is going to change when you get there late.
John
3/2/09 I say we walk back the 20 day route. It'll be a new set of scenery and challenges. Could prove interesting.
For the sword, we give it to the drow and hope they don't bitch about it. If Liam protests too much it's just proof the sword has possessed him and we need to give it back to them to free him from it's terrible grasp on his mind.
mikE
And now the opposite issue - how to get back down to Khazefryn quickly.
You can walk down, some slight disagreement if you should go the quick 6 days or the long 20 days.
BUT you have the more pressing concern about what to do about the sword.
BOB
02/09
BOB's responses:
-dimensional pool out of the underdark will not work just like it will not work to go into the underdark
-Ethereal travel is possible in and out of the underdark
-Astral travel is possible in and out of the underdark
-dimensional pool to anywhere requires you to focus on the location you are going to
-natural water means 'as nature' so no magically created, enhanced, etc.
-immersion is required so the barrel better be a big one
-getting out the long way will be risky time wise - you are just hoping the sword is still with the gnolls a month from now
-creative problem solving for getting out to Roadhaven extra quick is good but there is always the 6 day march back out if that does not work out
You can always split the party up too if you can only get one or two out in a creative way, the adventure for the sword should be a quick fast one or two session thing (I hope). In theory most could bunker down in a cavern, a couple to retrieve the sword and then regroup to go present it.
Looking forward to hearing some creative problem solving
2/9
Okay, reading the Dimension Pool page, and the Underdark page makes me thing this might work. First of all, the Underdark page states that the inate magic aura of the place screws with teleportation. The pool page states that the pool "transports". So if that is the official language, there's one loophole.
Also, the underdark page states that teleport and teleport like spells work, but with greatly reduced ranges.
The pool page says the focus allows the user and six people to "transport" back to the pool.
Now, the transport effect in the pool is worded pretty clearly. It takes you to the pool. No mention of distances.
If BOB in all his wisdom ::cough cough:: doesn't like either of those loopholes I propose this: loosely worded magic in Bob's world will first take the path of least resistance. "I wish to have this magic item." can result in the closest version of that item appearing before you. Bob likes this way because it lets him get back at us through the previous owner getting pissed and picking a fight. I say that way of thinking can also be applied here. The talisman does one very specific job: returns the bearer to the pool. The rules do not state HOW this is achieved. If the talisman finds that the easy, direct teleport path does not work due to range restrictions in the underdark, who's to say it won't choose a different path that does work. It can access any dimension it wants, so why couldn't it take us through an alternate dimension that successfully bridges the two spots we are trying to connect? What if it decides to do a little space warping and simply folds the space between us and the pool so that they are less than the half mile limit? I would think that this pool is a very powerful item (or Bob wouldn't hate them so much), and as such would be able to get it's job done in one way or another as long as it's conditions are met.
Oh, and Bob, nowhere on the page does it state a "natural" body of water. It states a "normal" body of water. Last time I checked the water in barrels that we carry around in the pack is pretty normal. Not magic at all.
Mike
2/9
Well, I'd say we need to re-read the pool rules, but since it is a dimensional pool, and if the etherial plane is doesn't have the no pass/teleport barriers that the underdark does, I can see us jumping into some water, into the etherial plane anywhere we want to be. But, I have no way of getting us OUT of the etherial plane. So that could be a problem.
As for water sources, the lake should be fine as long as it's natural enough. We never actually touch the water itself, just use it as a lens. We never get wet when we pool out/in so jumping into the stone lake shouldn't be an issue, really. The water won't touch us. But Bob's so picky about our water sources for the pool he'll probably rule the lake is magical and not a viable pool puddle. Then we all turn to stone and die. Reroll at level 1. Wewt.
But there is an easy solution to that: we actually do what the hell we're supposed to do when we cross the lake and throw some gems overboard. Pick some crap-o gems and toss 'em and we'll have no trouble. From what I read the only reason we had any trouble was from not throwing gems. Hell, even the "pirate" boat wasn't an issue because for some reason Bob's NPC's didn't even follow his rules. Maybe our bad habits are rubbing off on his NPC's now. Then we jump into a clean river and poof! etherial.
But again, this all hinges on wether or not we can cheat the barrier using the etherial plane or not. We need to research that. I'll look at what I can on the site, but John and Lorie, I would think you guys have the most detailed info on the capabilities of the pools. And John, we'll need you to think about the etherial plane issue. I have no experience there. Just the planes of hell.
Lorie, will your planeshift help us get out of the etherial? What about the standing stones? John, got a handy spell? Is there water in the etherial for us to pool with? Can we use the djini ring in the etherial to have him make the illusion of a natural lake which we will in no way, shape, or form question, thus lending our belief to the magic (which some schools of thought say is really the basis of magic power) thus making it work despite Bob's groans of protest?
Answer these as you can and maybe we can screw Bob over some how.
But, failing all magic shikanery, I say we take the longer route out of here to the surface. It might yield some good results, or at the very least not be so dangerous. Then we can judge which way to come back down and go back out.
Mike
2/8
John, the only two bodies of water I recall is the lake that turned our bodies to stone if we touched it, and the river which would set us wayward if we didn't have someone to save us all. Of course, that's if we decide to take the short route back, which was the way we came. Otherwise, the other route is unknown to us, and we can't guarantee finding water that won't harm us there. Sorry if I sounded very straightforward and pessimistic.
I do hope we figure out which route we'll take, and at least attempt to proceed to see if John's plan will work. In the meantime, I will attempt to get my next character ready during the next game and during this week for the site.
Vicki
2/7
While I still consider the Dimensional Pool more advanced than Teleport, BOB has ruled otherwise. {note- check the underdark page for some details - BOB} If I recall, the Ethereal plane is "on top of" the prime plane. I say we find a body of water, go ethereal and pool back to Roadhaven. If we concentrate hard we can remember where we were and teleport on the Ethereal plane and get back to the city quicker. I could try it myself if you are all chicken.
John
2/6
So now the group knows what is involved in getting down to Khazefryn and has to decide on which option to take.
1 - march back out the way you came in (6 days deep dark dangerous road)
2 - march back out the long way (taking 20 days less dangerous route)
3 - come up with some plan using the magic items the group has to find a shorter/faster way of returning home
Once you are back on the surface the group would go back to Roadhaven, regroup, and plot a quick assault to get that sword.
Then after it is retrieved you need to get it back down to Khazefryn, so either marching again or what ever you get creative with.
Then after talking with Meleager, there will be the march back up to the surface one more time at least.
The group should discuss options now that you know the location of Khazefryn, and what your options are in shortening the number of game sessions spent traveling (if you want to) or handling the encounters differently as you travel, etc.
BOB
2/2
Don't forget about polymporph other. Worked on Greelox. Or chromatic sphere. First level, insta-death goodness.
Mike
While I am not opposed to having a huge underwater battle, please be sure everyone in the group is ready for it before we get started.
BOB
1/31/09
To Kill or not to Kill the Lake Monster
Because it is there, I think Paul wants to kill the monster, heck I want to kill it. Not my first choice. I would like to charm it and have it give back all the gems in the lake but it probably eats them, but maybe we can find out. Paul does not have that spell and it's not in the party pack, so let's move on. At first I thought Flesh to Stone would be a fitting end for the monster, but if it is immune to the flesh to stone water, it maybe immune to the spell as well. Then I remembered my old friend Rob's motto, don't use a high level spell when a low level spell will do. All we have to do is grab it. I cast reduce to make it a little tiny monster and fly it to shore. Sure it gets a save, but it's such a fun spell and idea it is bound to work.
Now about those gem, hmmmmmm
John
1/15/09
But to cross a one rope bridge we'd need to be securely tied to the rope somehow and slide across. It'd take rope use to properly tie everyone onto the rope. So unless someone else has rope use I still don't think that would be safe with the acid river below us.
mikE
1/14/09
Not true Kaz. I was thinking he could shoot the grappling arrow over TO ME (not at me!!!) and I have the portable hole so I have some of the mountaineering gear such as pitons with me. I could secure the rope and grapple on my end and everyone could belay over while I go search for Tori.
Fritz
1/13/09
Fritz, Rave having Rope Use is no help to Fin with his grapple arrow, as Rave is on the other side of the pit.
Kaz
1/13/09
As far as securing the rope I do have "Rope Use" (I got it because I am a Bounty Hunter and need to tie people up) so that isn't an issue. Is an Invisible Stalker an Air Elemental that can be summoned as a choice? That is the only one I know of that is a faultless tracker.
1/13/09
I have a grapple arrow, but no one ever has rope use, and you know that without that BOB will give us all kinds of crazy rolls for getting across that way. I would assume BOB would rule a round/person you yank across. If Paul can summon up an air elemental we don't have to worry about tracks getting old since they are faultless, but that's probably a big IF. I really don't see a way for us to get across even if the bridge was up but one/round or two even considering how long the bridge is.
-mikE
1/12/09
Well this reminds me of the time that Reign got killed when Jess's character got kidnapped by the Sahuagin. But be that as it may, I am concerned that if I delay in going to look for Tori that she would indeed be lost. I would try and bring some people across but currently I am only a round or 2 behind her. I usually have chalk on my character sheet for just such an occasion but didn't see it for some reason (I must have forgotten to add it this time). Anyway I will be putting arrows down on the ground to guide people towards me and if I need to will use my illusion ability and dancing lights ability to help guide the group as well. I am not certain what could take her out without an apparent struggle but it is sure to be a significant opponent because she isn't a wimp. Does Kylia have "Air Walk" or another spell that could get people across quickly? How long a delay do you think Bob would impose on me if I tried to get some people across. I mean I rolled a perfect "1" for my tracking check and only got that I see many footprints. I doubt if there are any more Cave Fishers and they usually only attack solitary individuals. They aren't stupid so if they witnessed what you did with the others I doubt any more would attack. To bad you dropped them down into the chasm as their web filaments are very valuable.
I used to have an "infinitely" long rope but Bob wouldn't let me keep it (LOL). Do you have any grappling arrows or stone driving arrows that you could use? How much time do you think it would take to have you shoot me a line and I stake it in the ground and tie it up. Then the rest of you can belay over?
I don't plan on taking on whatever has Tori I just want to find them so I can bring the rest of the group to help rescue her.
Fritz
1/12/09
For when we set up next time I'm thinking that everyone still there should take the time while we wait for the bridge to re-appear to try and find any more cave fishers on the ceiling. My thoughts are that any fishers able to trap us on the bridge probably revealed themselves when tori went across, but since we don't have anything else to do as we sit there and wait, if we can see any more, Fin can shoot them before the bridge reappears to give us a safe crossing.
And if Christy or John can make it that night I'd send one of them across first because if they get caught up, Fin can shoot any fishers that snare them before any damage can be done, and they can fly to the other side on their own when the bridge disappears due to the fisher dropping on it.
Any other suggestions?
Mike
1/2/09 (00:00 CST)
I'm sorry John that I'm having a difficult time conversing IC discussions here, but I wish all the best for everyone tonight whether I'm there or not. We should all have a remembrance for Valgar who bravely and stupidly slid down the slope without a shield and unguided, and as a result, crashed into a wall and died from impact. As hilarious as it was, it was, by far, the best role play for a character with the wisdom of 9 and intelligence of 8 (or was it the other way around). Not sure about the person playing the character, but I'll leave that up to the spouse of the player... LOL. Now, as for this part, and as for any part of the game, I am not sure what to do or where to go from here. Sorry, I can't put much into this as I'm usually lost, and not just with the game play, but as with the rules. Things keep changing rather quickly for my slow mind to process... not really that slow. I hope all goes well (or as well as can be expected) for the remainder of this adventure. Good luck.
Vicki
12/15
The new sections in the rule book will be finished for Friday's game. All sorts of Vision & Light issues as well as the Extraordinary Senses section will be fully cross referenced.
Just in case you end up fighting a swarm of goblins in the dark for example.
BOB
11/23/2008
I did my part by going over to BOB's to get some updates and information on the game.
It should be made clear how major of an adventure is upcoming. This kind of mirrors when the Dragonites went on their adventure where they were on their own for a while, only when the DragonSlayers go on this trip they will not have a Paul Pager. Even if Paul is with them, getting home is not going to be easy, so we have to pack well.
But before we discuss that, I want to propose or discuss how to get back home, and how not too. Teleportation is so limited and dangerous as to be ruled out. According to BOB the Pool will not work either. Both issues are under normal circumstances. We need to find out how they will work in conjunction with Plane Shift or similar spells. My first thought was for us to go Astral or Etheal and then use either the Pool or Teleport. BOB seems to think it may still not work. If anyone has more information on plane travel, now would be the time. We may have to go to another plane to get home quicker.
too much?
John
11/23/08
One point to make sure that all are keeping in mind. The Pools works well for limited travel. (see Dimensional Pool) Note the 'natural body of water'. There is none on the Astral or Ethereal Planes. Teleport spells will not function to get in or out of the Underdark although they will work when down there. It might be good to have a backup escape plan ready, but I personally think that the group is better off planning and organizing for a march from the Mountains of Copper down to this 'wretched hive of villainy and scum' after finding a guide. You will want to prepare to not have access to home for several days if not weeks. That means reorganizing the Party Pack and being sure everyone understands the limitations.
If you do really want to use the Planes as 'short cuts' be sure you know what that entails.
BOB
11/29
The Party Pack was reorganized during the last session Nov 28 08 and is ready for the new adventure. Minor changes can be made before we start down into the Underdark but need to be completed before going off on that journey.
12 characters plus Chohen for the Dragonslayers 12 dwarves plus a prisoner will accompany them.
good luck.
BOB
